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		<title>ATS never fails to amaze</title>
		<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze</link>
		<description>Posts in the discussion thread &quot;ATS never fails to amaze&quot; - I have to admit, I&#039;ve spent waaay too much time at ATS the last couple of years but even so, some things still surprise me. See for yourself=)</description>
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858678</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858678</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bikenbeer2000</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>403189</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Yes, the Earth's precession is explained by the gravitational theory of the Sun, Moon and planets pulling on the Earth's equatorial bulge. He seems to be effectively claiming that the laws of gravitation are mysteriously suspended in this particular instance.</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858497</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858497</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>TheGreatJuju</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>469590</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>That was a big part of the &quot;wtf&quot; reaction he received at BAUT. His actual <a href="http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/bri/images/solarsystemmotion/BRI-AGUpaper.pdf">contention</a> is that precession measurements are made relative to background objects, as opposed to Solar System objects, and he claims to have shown that precession relative to these local objects is insignificant when compared to the background stars (my use of the term &quot;lack&quot; was misleading).</p> <p>Cruttenden writes:</p> <p><em>&quot;Under the current lunisolar theory of precession it is assumed that the earth goes around the sun 359 degree 59 minutes and 10 arc seconds in a Tropical year, the period from like equinox to like equinox, which is equal to 365.2422 rotations of the earth. This is true if you measure the position of the equinox relative to the fixed stars “outside” the solar system but it is not true if you measure the movement of the equinox relative to the sun or moon or other objects “within” the solar system, where the lunar data shows us that the earth goes around the sun a complete 360 degrees in a tropical year. Unfortunately, neither NASA VLBI nor any other official agency measures the earth’s orientation relative to nearby objects, so the paradox goes unnoticed.</em><br /> &#8230;<br /> <em>&quot;Ironically, astronomers unknowingly recognize the two different frames at work when it comes to routine calculations within the solar system. For example, when they plot the position of planets or moons within the solar system they use a tropical frame, which by definition excludes precession (Footnote 2) thus no precession adjustment is required or even considered. However, when the position of a star needs to be found you first find the object at a point in time (say J2000) then add precession for each year that has passed since that point.&quot;</em></p> <p><a href="http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/bri/research/evidence/lunarcycle.shtml">http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/bri/research/evidence/lunarcycle.shtml</a></p> <p>Whether that is true or not (and I don't know), my understanding of physics is that any spheroidal object rotating on an axis will precess relative to external gravity (in Earth's case, the Moon, Sun and maybe other planets). If observations can be largely accounted for by this basic principle, I'm not even certain what Cruttenden's alternative is meant to explain. I know he thinks his idea explains observations <em>better</em>, but making numbers work doesn't mean much if those numbers don't correspond to reality.</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858463</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858463</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 00:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bikenbeer2000</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>403189</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Precession is a motion of the Earth's axis. Therefore it affects observations of <strong>everything</strong> from the Moon outwards. Cruttenden's claim that it doesn't affect objects in the solar system is just plain wrong. It's nonsense.</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858454</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858454</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>TheGreatJuju</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>469590</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>How is it remotely considered we're a binary star system all of a sudden?</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <p>Amateur researchers like <a href="http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org">Walter Cruttenden</a> have presented a few somewhat coherent proposals, mainly centered around a supposed lack of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession">precession</a> relative to objects in the Solar System, which in turn can supposedly be explained by a moving solar system. A while back, Cruttenden himself actually presented his ideas on the Bad Astronomy forum. As is typical around there, the mods went on a power trip and treated him like a run-of-the-mill woo-woo asserting the existence of Nibiru or reptilian aliens without evidence, but I actually thought he handled himself well, relatively speaking. I also think his ideas are probably crap, and the fact that he can't seem to gain much traction among actual scientists doesn't inspire confidence. He's also had dealings with John Major Jenkins, which severely damages his credibility, even if his ideas have merit.</p> <p>There's also the old <a href="http://www.2012hoax.org/nemesis">Nemesis</a> debate, of which which Cruttenden's ideas are basically a repackaging.</p> <p>In any case, a binary companion to the Sun is not impossible; there's just no evidence of any such thing right now. (Unless you count <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90377_Sedna">Sedna</a>, and jury's still out on that.)</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858448</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS stupidity &amp; homage to 2012hoax.org</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858448</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Mike Poulin</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Above Top Secret i'm guessing.</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858447</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS stupidity &amp; homage to 2012hoax.org</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858447</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>elsgeorge</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>534437</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Ok, can I ask..without sounding like a complete moron..what is ATS?</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858423</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858423</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Astrogeek</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>334222</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I think that if you were to do some videos that were funny/sarcastic it would actually be helpful. The ones that don't seem to get much traction are the simply sarcastic&#8230; they come across as 'nasty'.</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858418</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858418</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Moo</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I&#8230; I should run an experiment. I should post Youtube videos trying to convince people that if they support me enough, the almighty Boo the Miniature Giant Space Hamster will come to smack Nibiru away and bring us all delicious hamster treats.</p> <p>And prevent the Second Coming.</p> <p>And then stop all wars.</p> <p>and give everyone infinite hamster treats.</p> <p>and stop all natural disasters (effectively killing us all btw)</p> <p>and fix global warming (oh wait none of the 2012 twits care about this)</p> <p>ALL HAIL BOO!!!</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858412</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858412</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>RickardM</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>499131</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Haha, the most hilarious part is that your interpretation was spot on. Even though she more or less was exposed as a first class fraud people turned to her for advices, mainly because &quot;I obviously tricked her into answering that&quot;=)</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858403</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858403</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Moo</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>&#8230; I just realized something. How is it remotely possible we're a binary star system? How? We can see beyond Pluto but we, for some reason, can't look at our sun and see it's butt buddy?</p> <p>It's only viewable at sunrise and sunset, apparently?</p> <p>I&#8230; do not&#8230; get&#8230; what?</p> <p>What?</p> <p>Do these people have ANY idea how space viewing works?!</p> <p>You know, I'm going to say something that isn't something I'd normally say, but I'm kind of hoping Nibiru DOES exist! Why? Because this thing is so damn magical it HAS to be out of a storybook. Then I can figure out how I can get INTO storybooks!</p> <p>What CAN'T Nibiru do?!</p> <p>No, seriously, legitimate question. How is it remotely considered we're a binary star system all of a sudden?</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858400</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858400</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Moo</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>&quot;Crap. I can't read his IP address! Uh&#8230; it's Europe so&#8230; Midwest? :D!&quot;</p> <p>&quot;&#8230; Not only are you wrong it was a trick question due to IP add-&quot;</p> <p>&quot;ZOMG SHE WAS SO CLOSE!&quot;</p> <p>&quot;ALL PRAISE THE PROPHET!&quot;</p> <p>&quot;SAVE ME!&quot;</p> <p>&quot;&#8230; People, IP addresses can be vie-&quot;</p> <p>&quot;I KNOW WHEN YOU ALL WILL DIE &gt;:EEE&quot;</p> <p>&quot;&#8230;&quot;</p> <p>Armageddon kinda looking good right about now with so many idiots.</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858269</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858269</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>RickardM</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>499131</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Haha, yeah the Midwest Europe would be equally wrong.</p> <p>Northern Europe on the other hand would be as correct as it gets. In fact, there should be atleast two dots from this very same IP;)</p> <p>I just recently found out that my interrest for this site has rubbed off to my fiancé, whom actually has some posts here (Although I don't think she registered a Wiki for it) that I didn't know of. It really is a small world</p> <p>Btw, let me get back to you reg. reward. If I can manage to get the 2012:ers to sign my nifty little &quot;property release form&quot; I'd even go as far as split the properties even with you guys=)</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858172</guid>
				<title>Re: ATS never fails to amaze</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858172</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Astrogeek</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>334222</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>She meant midwest europe &lt;wink&gt; which is still wrong, isn't it?</p> <p>I am guessing you are in Northern Europe. If I'm right, do I get a prize?</p> <p>Anyway, there is an old saying: &quot;You cannot reason a person out of a position they did not arrive at through reason.&quot; (or something close to that)</p> <p>People believe the &quot;intuitive&quot; because it is emotionally comforting for them to do so. As a Christian, I understand. But at least I admit that my personal woo is woo.</p> 
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				<guid>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006#post-858167</guid>
				<title>ATS stupidity &amp; homage to 2012hoax.org</title>
				<link>http://2012hoax.wikidot.com/forum/t-261006/ats-never-fails-to-amaze#post-858167</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>RickardM</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>499131</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Ok, so I've had more than a few discussions with people over at ATS regarding mostly Nibiru and during my stay there I've found quite a few gems. But this is more or less a must see: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqA7hHpIUFI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqA7hHpIUFI</a> (I still haven't learned to embed videos=)</p> <p>I'll admit, the video in it self isn't all that impressing, but the combination of techno crap like Infected Mushroom and yet another Youtube user that have unravelled the darkest secrets out there is quite entertaining. Even more so when you browse through the comments of the video. Even though you can clearly see the second sun &quot;disappear&quot; in the end of the video people still proclaim something that could only be described as the second comming.</p> <p>So, how come people are so hellbent on proving that we are all going to die even though there is nothing that indicates such a thing? Tired of life, seeking fame or just plain bored? Personally I blame my OCD, but that's just me=)</p> <p>I had a discussion with a claimed intuitive (like Lieder, according to herself). After debating her for several days I thought I would put her intuition to the test and simply asked her to &quot;intuit&quot; where I was located at the moment. Her guess was somewhere in the Midwest, which was about 4440km wrong. Even so people still believed her. I mean really, she missed my location with sooo much that it was ridiculous and still people consult her on advices on how to surrvive Nibiru</p> <p>It gets more than a little frustrating in the long run, which really makes it all that more apparent that you guys must have a patience out of this world. Actually, during my stay here I've grown more and more impressed with how you guys handle all claims, and in particular some of mine (I know that I can be incredibly stubborn, and apologize for that). So really, thank you all for all the time you invest in this place and all the patience you have with the likes of me=)</p> 
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