I'll propose something different, lets agree to disagree and move back to future doomsday scams. :)

But here everyone has to have an medical insurance.

This is in Spain, I don't know around the world how's going.

I thought we were done discussing politics? I seem to think not. There is a great deal of disinformation here.

I can tell you there is a lot of misinformation right now on what is happening in the usa.

That is exactly right, this administration has never once had any intentions of not letting the Bush Tax Cuts continue. Using the wealthy as hostage, and making it seem like the Republicans are going to be the blame for this is Politics 101. They've known all along taxes need to go up on the entire country in order to compensate for the enormous amount of money this administration is spending. Missinformation, is the key to this administration and Johnny Football hit it dead on. My parents are older and they have already seen cuts in their medicaid, before Obama care even goes into affect. I could care less, like Johnny said, if our president was a liberal, gay, jewish, muslim, dem, rep, or independant. I have no allegence to a party, and my only basis for voting is judging an individual based on his prior accomplishments. Right, I mean thats what it all boils down to.

Here's a list of this Presidents blatant lies to the American Citizens, our elected officials, and even to the Supreme court of our country. Its chicago politcs at best, and again I don't mean to offend anyone. But I had the same concerns over Bush and his cabinet during the Iraqi war, and the stupendous amount of spending his administration was responsible for. Here's the site, and I don't know if they have an affiliation with either side of the isle, but they used Obama's Own Words and quoted him. http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/fashion-shows/..

People forget he promised Hope and Change, Unemployment down to 5% in 2yrs, cut the national debt not add to it, to step across the isle in true compromise, No special interests: Will not be beholding to special interests. (Wall Street fundraisers just a day or so after their bailout. he was given millions from fund raisers, Closing Gitmo: He is commander and chief and has no excuse, Not letting politics influence scientific matters: Over ruled FDA on morning after pill, Benghazi, Syria, Israel, TARP, ending the Iraq war 16 months after elected to presidency and lets also not forget that he took credit for the Bush's time table that was proposed before Bush left office, Afghanastan: http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/obama-lies-about-ending-the-war-in-afghanistan/...The list goes on, and if this were any President my thoughts would be exactly the same as they are now. The truth is our economy isn't going to get better, and Obama knew the situation he was getting into before he took office. He desired to get right to work because of the difficulties that were facing our Banking industry in this country. He knew fully well, and he made this economy his from day 1 in office, and he's so bodly stated. The truth is our national debt is at 17 trillion, and I don't think the average person even understands what that means, nor do they care unless it affects them financially. Our countries unemployment is still hovering around 8%, a drop below nationally, but in some states its still over 10%. 17 trillion, I mean, come on. Wars were budgeted for, TARP was somewhat paid back, so where the hell did the almost 7 trillion come from. Its simple math, and numbers don't lie. Who says the rich don't pay their fair share, and again the numbers don't lie: http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html… This shows the that the top 50% have been paying 97 to 96% of the income tax over the last decade while the bottom 50% have contributed to 3 to 4% over that same time. Whats funny, is the bottom 50% have actually paid less taxes as a group each consecutive year leading up to 2009, while the highest tax payers have actually increased over that same time frame.

My wife an I worked in a state school for the mentally disabled around 20 years ago. It was eventually shutdown due to federal funding being cut. Over time that funding has been cut more and been funnled to "pork" spending for corrupt politicians. Unions have taken their cuts, special interest groups as well. Those who are really in need, the common man, are the ones who are suffering. While the politicians ride the wave of fear and hate, the common man has been pulling the weight of 10. It pains me to say it, but america is a shell of what she once was. Yes, there are good people in the united states. I used to believe politicians listened to the people. When Bill Clinton listened to the people and changed his policies I gained more faith that those leading us did care. Yet now I see a leader how cares nothing about what the average person believes or thinks. The difference is 180 degrees.

So do not count on the U.S. economy to improve. A simple understanding of economics will show you that we are not going to anytime soon. The path we chose is one that will only decrease our value to the world marketplace.

We now have to pay for medecines that were free before, even we have to pay to go to the doctor and the ambulances, this never happened before so we're really really bad.

Those things were never free. That you thought they were is probably a big part of them problem.

Even some of the people that are in the Goverment now were with Franco before, when there was a dictatorship.

So, that's why I asked about the US economy, because if they don't get working on a solution… Well, I don't know what will happen!

This site needs people to work together even when they have opposing views.

The trick is to realize that once you get negative emotional, stop posting.

Unless the emotion is actually going to help the person. An emotional post that you are concerned that someone will hurt himself is a good post. It transmits '"we do care about you" message.

I temporary blocked SmartyPantz in another heated political until he cools down.

jasonb75, gcarini1985

Don't make me do that to you too.

This is not a political site!

hey are trying to keep those with high skills as there is a tendency for high skilled candidates in government to move to the private sector where there is significantly more opportunities that pay better.

You said it not me. Thats whole Idea of capitalism, isn't it. I am paying attention but you keep saying the same thing over and over again. The truth of the matter is Obama and his administration were only able to gain back the jobs they lost over his presidency. But there has been an increase in government assisted programs. You saying you work in government doesn't give you the inside edge. there are many dpts in our government and subsidiaries that are contracted out, like defense and solar or wind. You say my ideas about taxes are laughable, but you don't explain why. I understand you majored in Politcal science, but what exactly is that, its the study of government or governments, the political processes, and political behavior. It in no way makes you an expert on economics. People that ascribe to the Obama philosphy for some reason have hatred and animosity towards the right, for what reasons I have no Idea. Republicans have done much good in our nation, and there wouldn't even be civil rights without their dedication and commitment to making the bill pass. People forget that, and talk about how the right is against middle america or minorities, when its the other way around. Should we honestly penalize the wealthy who have made their fair share, and for being educated, responsible, and motivated to succeed because our government can't control their spending. Thats ridiculous. The government is asking them to pay for their mistakes. What did the wealthy ever do to deserve that. They didn't incur our nations debt, they didn't make decisions in Washington to affect our kids future. The only thing they ever did wrong was be rich. I hate that division, it was only created in the Obama campaign, and I can't ever remember another president in recent years running a campaign based on the premise. Lets fuck the rich because they are rich, so the government can pay back its debts. You don't see whats wrong with that, then I'm sorry. Its not fair to use that in a campaign. Again, I would have no issue with taxes going up if our country was in a better situation, like it was during the tech error under Clinton. The problem isn't whether or not the Right will let the Dems raise taxes, its over spending, and spending alone right now. The right wants the left to cut spending and they will give into the taxes, but until the left knows how to be responsible with the countries tax revenues, why should the right give in. If the president can sit back, and watch this whole fiasco go down, what does that say about him and the left. They are using the middle class hostage, not the other way around. I feel like its a witch hunt against the wealthy, and thats what pisses me off. We are a nation, and we shouldn't divide over petty stuff like this. We all know they pay their fair share, and pay more than 50% of tax revenues to our country. What would be more fair, and honestly when have you ever seen a tax return for someone who makes serious money. I'm betting you've never seen a tax return for the wealthy. So unless you can verify your information without using media bias slang, than thats all it is. Its not a known fact they pay that much, because I see tax returns all day long. I hate when people use that analogy, without ever observing a tax rerturn.

Most of the nation's GDP growth is from the private sector. Not from the declining government employment which has constantly declined. How do I know? I work in government. People are getting laid off, not hired. They are trying to keep those with high skills as there is a tendency for high skilled candidates in government to move to the private sector where there is significantly more opportunities that pay better.

Republicans in general are serial liars and the sooner you recognize this reality the better off you'll be. Obama is far better than those morons in the republican party who filibuster themselves and left this country a disaster. And I think Obama has done a decent enough job. By the way, I am NOT a democrat. I'm a non-partisan. But I haven't bought so much into the right wing lies like you have.

Forbes and Examiner are just right wing claptrap to be honest and they are inclined to skew anything they can about Obama. These morons don't realize that corporations are having record profits under the Obama administration. I know quite a bit about business too… so don't be so dismissive. It's super easy to claim that the figures are inaccurate… it's another thing actually supporting those phony statements.

Most GDP and economic growth isn't coming from government spending and hiring when the government isn't hiring and cutting jobs. Get real.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-private-sector-and-the-public-sector-under-obama-2012-6?op=1

This is a conservative suorce by the way and it tells you the truth. Corporate profits are through the roof under Obama. Thought he was bad for business? Oh wait…. he's not.

Your own ideas are heavily skewed and almost nonsencial.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4fd29fb3ecad04b27700000f-590/to-start-total-government-employment-is-far-below-where-it-was-when-obama-started-office.jpg

And you want to know why government jobs shot up under 2010? Uhmmmm… THE CENSUS. The government has cut jobs and continues to shed jobs throughout the past two years. Open your eyes please.

And BBC supports Obama? So what? Better than thinking that the republican party is helping everybody.

edit: and if you would like a business media bias to analyze our nations true unemployment figures, which they estimate to be around 14.7% then here you go http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/10/11/obamas-real-unemployment-rate-is-14-7-and-a-recessions-on-the-way/… http://www.examiner.com/article/7-7-unemployment-inaccurately-depicts-real-jobless-rate

http://www.cbpp.org/about/

This organization is not media based and isn't based around politicians. In the end, policy makers actually take material from them.

Stop believing the Fox News bullshit and lets get back to reality. The GOP is a nutcase party full of whackjobs who have no understanding of the middle or lower classes. They aren't trying to help everybody in this country. Oh and the economy back under the Bush administration was built on a house of cards. There were cracks in the system appearing all the way back to 2007. But I guess some here just don't want to see it. And what I have cited is better than you citing absolutely nothing.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-wins-8-10-wealthiest-154837437.html

Oh and if you think Obama is pushing class warfare you're even more wrong than I thought.

The weathly often pay less than 20% of their income in taxes. Time to roll that back and make them pay their fair share (which they clearly aren't). Any more claptrap I need to deal with?

Corruption and lies… then ask the ASSHOLES in the republican party to come clean!

And I'm not believing horseshit. Half of your post was baseless groundless right wing bullshit. I'm sorry. The media? I don't even watch American media. I avoid it. I watch the BBC and Al Jazeera English (for perspective). Al Jazeera english uses British reporters and they tend to talk about American politics from the outside.

You are extremely dismissive and confrontational when confronted with actual sources, and not the same Fox News claptrap you have so much bought into.

You have insulted me enough and I will not sit here and take it. The Obama administration started many financial policies, including ones regarding mortgages and banking, that prevented wider scale fall out. The situation couldh ave been a whole lot worse. And that article I cited wasn't writtenbup by the media leftist. You have gone down a similiar route as Patrick Geryl… but in politics.

So while much of the wealthy pays 15% to 20% in federal taxes, where do the average stand. Much, much lower around 10% or even 8% depending on how many dependants you have in your family.

I'd rather you read my source instead of making these claims. Obama isn't using tactics to scare the public, the republican party is. And the republican party needs to stop playing these stupid political games. We know they are aligned with the rich and only care about the top 5%.

You may find it shocking how Obama has had very little to do wtih the debt, and the government needs tos top spending? That's really interesting because the government is the one who maintains infrastructure in this country that is quite important. At the end of the day, it's all interesting republicans are still complaining about TARP when TARP itself has paid itself back and then some. In addition it is such a small portion of this country's debt.

Look at the source again please. We can reduce the debt burden if we let the Bush tax cuts expire (on the wealthy that is). Extending tax cuts on the middle and working classes.

The republicans are out of order here and are the ones responsible for this mess in the first place.
'
"Dems are creating class warfare, while spending more than any government in the history of governments has spent… Its undeniable!"]

Typical fox new talking point and one without any evidence.

How are they creating class warfare? You have no proof. I guess you don't care about the medium and long term. YOu are only about the shortterm. It explains your misinterpretations and falsehoods. And what are his failures? Republicans and so called "independents" keep on talking about that and fail at it. Obama has the backing of the country. His latest approval ratings are around 55-60% approving.

This will greatly affect our country in more than one way. Its not going to generate the money they estimate unless every business operates as usual and doesn't lay any one off. Another way business owners can compensate for increased taxes is to raise the cost of their merchandise to offset tax increases. But this could cause a significant drop in sales if they aren't competative with other local companies, smaller companies that won't see a tax hike.

There are so many problems with this proposal, and I'm not arguing it isn't a good thing to raise taxes. If the economy was surging like it did under the tech error under Clinton, then sure why not, we should all pay our share fair. But when the economy has no growth, or slight growth it will only hurt us.

My guess is this: Republicans will be FORCED to allow tax cuts expire on the rich, while conceding in allowing the cuts to continue for the middle class and those who make under $250,000

What exactly do you mean by this, "conceding". Republicans don't want taxes going up on any class, rich or poor. They are fighting for the entire nation, while dems are holding wealthy people hostage to use in their negotiations. Dems are creating class warfare, while spending more than any government in the history of governments has spent… Its undeniable!!! I"m not a fan of Obama and his failed policies, nor was I a fan of Romney. I would have you know that I'm an Independant sitting on the sidelines looking into the hour glass, and I'm very concerned over the way Obama and his scaremongering cabinet do business in Washington. It would be much easier to extend the Bush tax cuts and reduce spending. I love how people claim Obama Care will save money in the long the run, but forget about all the different insurance companies it will put out of business since they won't be able to compete with gov insurance. Lets also not forget the 700billion in cuts that are being made to medicaid to help pay for Obama Care. Which in turn will move doctors away from the form of insurance. I love it when any President promises shit that takes 8 to 10yrs to maticulate. It must be nice trying to prove something will "really" work a decade from now, but we have no way of knowing until 10yrs from now. I love how they say shit like that, and expect us to trust them it will pan out.

I don't know if you have kids, but I have 4 and this scares the hell out of me. My post above wasn't in favor of either party, but I'm obviously distrusting of the most failed presidency in US history as far as I'm concerned. Obama uses the same tactics to do business by scaring the pulbic, dividing the public, and forcing deals down congress throats at the last minute.. Quite a procrastinator!!!! I voted for Obama the first time around, but he and his cabinet don't know the first thing about saving this country. His famous quote first time around was Mainstreet not Wallstreet, yet he appointed all Wall Street guys to work in the Fed, Treasury, economy dept in the US.

The gov needs to stop spending, and should focus on getting people back to work. GDP as you stated, and if you look at the numbers is mostly from the government. Thats in no way a promise of better things to come. Thats why gov needs to continue to spend under Obama to ensure GDP outcomes.

If you remember TARP, which was another great jam down the throats of congress or else the US economy would freeze up, and done at the last minute as well. TARP was intended to rescue banks underwater from the mortgage defaults and homeowners. It was passed, because we were told the US economy would collapse. But how was the money used. The money was lent out from the FED Reserve, to other huge banks. The banks in turn got to write off their bad debts under TARP, and actually used the money to buy other banks. Never in the History of our country have we seen so many bank take overs in such a short period of time. We had healthy banks being bought up cheap because of a manipulated market value. The Wells Fargo's, and Bank of America's of the world become too big to fail under the new TARP money's thanks to our government and Federal Reserve. Instead of having 30 big banks, we are down to about 5 in our country, and they are indeed to big to fail. The banking industry is able to hold the US government hostage any time they have a crisis, and now the government will always have to help them if they are on the verge of failing. Look at the CEO's of those big banks, and their connections to the FED Reserver, and US Treasury, and maybe you will see the bigger picture.

At the end of the day whats on the news is truly irrelevant, and the promises being made should be judged based on that person's history. Business was done the wrong way for the past 6 or 7 yrs, and even under the latter part of Bush with his ridiculous spending in Washington. Agreeable those were scary times in the post 9-11, and our government had to surge into the tech error which is where most of the cost came from.

Obama Care might or might not work, but one thing is for sure more companies will be going out of business because they won't be able to comptete. There is so much policy entwined in the Obama Care that I don't have the time nor patience to go through it all, but it was held back after Obama got re-elected. He has been injecting class war fare in our nation more than any other leader in modern history. Separating the rich and the poor is nonsense, and its honestly only for the ignorance of our society to believe in that. Thats a campaign tactic and nothing more.

The Bush tax cuts are ridiculous and are costing this country trillions that it shouldn't. Yes, government is spending too much, but a majority of government spending goes to the huge military and the failed wars we were fighting. Not health care nor education.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3849

http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms/10-10-12bud-f1.jpg

http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms/10-10-12bud-f2.jpg - THIS IS NOT A LIE. This was done by a non-partisan organization. Obama has VERY LITTLE to do with why the debt is at its present level. Obama didn't tack on 6 trillion. A majority of that was prior spending and tax cuts. Without the Bush era tax cuts and the wars we would be at around 42-43% of debt as part of the GDP and that would decline below 40% in several years. Instead because of the republicans and their failed past policies, the debt level has reached 80% of the GDP.

It's not Obama who is at fault. It's republicans who sent this country over the cliff. We need to let tax cuts expire on the rich, and extend those on the middle class and small businesses.

My guess is this: Republicans will be FORCED to allow tax cuts expire on the rich, while conceding in allowing the cuts to continue for the middle class and those who make under $250,000. My prediction is by doing this the debt level will decrease to about 60% of the GDP… it's not great, but it's better than 80 or 90%.

Its honestly going to suck, but the average American won't be affected by this for some time. I've seen statements about GDP above and those estimates are true, but let me also mention that most of our GDP is thanks to government spending and hiring, and the numbers are way lower than whats in the news. Much, Much lower, and unemployment is much, much higher. This cliff gives Dems a perfect opportunity to let taxes increase on all Americans. It doesn't make any sense to raise taxes when our country is still getting out from under the recession. Our economy is much worse now, than it was when Obama extended the Bush tax cuts 2 yrs ago, so I don't see any reason to raise them. Our government is spending too much, and increased taxes would slighten the margin if taxes were raised on all of us. It sucks, I know, but its looking more and more like the out come. I mean seriously, How can our freaking President have an issue with spending cuts, after he tacked on 6trillion in national debt in 4yrs. We need to extend Bush tax cuts, and come up with a fiscal budget that cuts the hell out of our governments spending.

I would prefer to give him a chance to express himself.

He kind of did.
But you are right. I could have let them speak a little bit more, since we are just in our last days here and, well, there is almost no one who is scared. :-)

Edit: I just unblocked him.

collapse soon?

Goodbye, troll! You were blocked!

Barack Obama: “We are ten days after a tragedy”.

I don't know about economy that much, so I wonder what would happen if the negotiations with Republicans are not going well. If the consequences will affect everyone or not… Those things.