Mayan Calendar
Gregory A Gross (guest) 04 Oct 2009 15:28
The Mayan calender is round, it starts on 16 January 2013 and never ends. If the world ends some day the Mayan calender will still keep going.
Why 2012? / Discussion
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Gregory A Gross (guest) 04 Oct 2009 15:28
That is true of the "calendar round", which proceeds on a cycle that repeats every 52 years. However, the Long Count calendar is not cyclical, but is rather a numeric count from a given starting point, similar in concept to our gregorian (AD) calendar.
Having said that, the "Long Count" calendar is open ended. The highest order date counts are billions of years long.
Schele and Freidel (1990) contend that the current calendar does not 'end' until the day 13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.0.0.0.0 ( counting from the theoretical end of the previous world in 3114 BC ). Each column is equal to twenty times its predecessor, so that date lies some 41,341,049,999,999,999,999,999,994,879 years in the future!
See Mayan Prediction
Although it is easy to quote and use Wikipedia as a source, a much better reference would be peer reviewed and/or academic articles. Here is an excellent paper done by a Dartmouth professor about the Mayan calendar:
Hi Matthew;
Yes, I agree. Would you like to help us upgrade our references? :-D
Please, update your references to include only peer-reviewed published journal articles, valid encyclopedia sources, or books by professional academics. Trust me on this, wikipedia is NOT yet a reputable source! (It's often fine for a quick unofficial math or science overview, but otherwise, use with caution.) If we're trying to teach students to avoid irrational hype, we need to demonstrate proper use of valid, careful research. Just because it's quick and easy doesn't make it accurate.
Please understand, I really very much appreciate all the work you've done on these pages. The site promises to be of great service to inquiring people all over the world in the next two years, especially when the references are improved.
Thanks so much,
Kim Miller,
8th grade science teacher
Santa Barbara, CA
Hi Kim;
We're working on it. Would you like to help? <wink>
By the way, how are your 8th graders reacting to the "2012 doomsday" hoax?
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
Here's a better source, which also contains further sources. That ought to allow you to even further check the accuracy of your data.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/mameterms/qt/mayan_long_count_calendar.htm
Cheers!
Kim Miller said
Trust me on this, wikipedia is NOT yet a reputable source!
I think we can safely say that wikipedia never will be, because of its policies regarding printed versus online sources. I've now had two bad experiences with wikipedia because of this.
In the second experience, I tried to put material about Jenkins' drug use in the the "John Major Jenkins" article, quoting from his book The 2012 Story. I was told that I couldn't cite it unless I found something in addition, that would be "verifiable" (which appears to mean available online, free of charge).
In the first experience, the wikipedia article "2012 Phenomenon" had cited an on-line article that misquoted John Major Jenkins in a way prejudicial to him. I tried to have Wikipedia include the correct quote, from Jenkins' Maya Cosmogenesis 2012, but was cited Wikipedia policies to support the editors' decision that because the (inaccurate) online article was "verifiable", the misquote would stand. It was still there last time I checked, about 2 weeks ago.
As long as Wikipedia favors "verifiable" on-line second-hand sources (even if inaccurate) over original printed sources, Wikipedia will never be truly reliable.
Trust me on this, wikipedia is NOT yet a reputable source!
Providing an article is properly sourced itself, Wikipedia can be very reliable. "Reputable" — well, that will probably forever remain a point of debate and in the beholder's eye, since anyone can stroll in and change something. It will probably never be a good primary source, but in many cases it is an excellent compilation of other sources. If I ran a classroom, I would judge the merit of a Wikipedia reference on this basis. For example, the Milky Way article cited on the Dark Rift page lists 75 references, many of them peer-reviewed papers.
I don't think any of the Wikipedia links employed here fall under the "This article does not cite any references or sources" category. In the event that they do, that is something to change, but it's not as if this website uses Wikipedia as its end-all authority. Most of the Wikipedia articles, in fact, are ancillary content like the Milky Way and South Atlantic Anomaly articles.
Just to clarify, I'm all with you on the "this is the stupidest thing I've heard" stuff when it comes to the 2012 "prophecies".
However, it's not the fault of the Maya, it's the fault of the media outlets, and improper interpretations by people who are not qualified, and wanting to make a profit off of this because they're not smart enough to figure out any other way.
It doesn't end, it simply goes to 13.0.0.0.1
I am writing to clear up a blatantly misleading comment, quoted below (emphasis mine):
"The calendar actually doesn't end on 12/21/2012 any more than the gregorian calendar ended on 12/31/1999, or when that tin of Tuna expired"
As was explained to me by Bumble Bee Tuna: The product, having being cooked in water or oil after being sealed within the can, is completely sterile. It never truly expires and will keep for our life time unless the can is dented or breached. Any date that some canneries put on tune cans indicates when the meat will begin to take on a strong metallic taste and be much less appealing, despite being edible for many more years (ignoring possible mercury content, of course).
;)
All joking aside, thanks for fighting the good fight versus ignorance, fear mongering, and those looking to profit from that.
Hi Dom,
Thanks for your comments. It is very encouraging when we hear from those of you who realize that the 2012 hysteria is, as you said, fear mongering for profit.
Don't people realise that calendars are artificial constructs? They do what the group constructed them intend for them to do. We could have doomsday on any day we want. Does the Julian or Chinese or Hebrew calendars have 2012 as an end of the world? I doubt it. I would think that doomsday would come *when all of the world's* calendars agreed. What is the Maya intend for their various calendars? Why did they construct them the way they did? Few of the 2012 folks do not seem to answer that question. Mayas seem to be props in their particular plays. What is the Mayan sense of time and how does it compare to the Western sense of time? People perceive time differently as well. Western time tends to be a straight arrow. Neo-Pagan time is a circle. Ancient Greeks thought of time as a corkscrew. What was Mayan's time.
Wikipedia has this from the world's leading Mayanist: In 1966, Michael D. Coe more ambitiously asserted in The Maya that "there is a suggestion … that Armageddon would overtake the degenerate peoples of the world and all creation on the final day of the thirteenth [b'ak'tun]. Thus … our present universe [would] be annihilated [in December 2012][b] when the Great Cycle of the Long Count reaches completion."[16]
Coe's apocalyptic interpretation was repeated by other scholars through the early 1990s.[17]
Since it started to make predictions for the end of the world, there was some that have generated as much fear as the 2012?
I don't know of any that are as intense as the 2012 fear… at least not in modern times.
I hear there was quite a bit of this kind of stuff in the run up to 1/1/1000
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
So, 012 has generated more fear and concern than any other doomsday sine 1/1/1000?? It just seems to me like it has gotten a lot of press from different sources.
Well, I don't know. The amount of "fear and concern" is difficult to measure.
The Cuban missile crisis probably generated a lot of "fear and concern" about a nuclear confrontation. I was just saying that there were a lot of people worried at the first turn of the millennium.
As far as modern (meaning 20th century) doomsday stuff, I would have to say that "fear and concern" probably peaked during a couple of other times as well… 1914 (World War I), 1941 (World War II) and the aforementioned confrontation between the US and the USSR.
The big difference is that those had legitimate reasons (i.e., war), whereas this is pure imagination.
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
I am so tired of being scared by this stuff. It seems like people are trying to link it to any and every thing they can. I take some solace in thinking that they have planned things for 2018(the world cup?)…but then, the crazy side of me thinks that everyday life would continue on in order to keep peace…UGH!!! I feel like screaming! It really is no wonder people are committing suicide over this.
Think of it this way, Laura.
The world was supposed to end in 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 and many, many years BEFORE 2000, they linked anything and everything to those dates as well, and we're still here, we're still alive, and we're still fighting.
Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.
I've thought about that too. I guess its just different because 2000 was about the computers and stuff shutting down…this time they are trying to link natural disasters to it and the Bible…and everything they can!
Laura, the doomsday predictions have had different styles throughout history. In the past, the prophecies were simple and without any scientific basis, historical or even religious. Today's apocalyptic prophecies are still without any scientific basis, historical or religious, but are more convincing. Some years ago, those prophecias does not included Mesoamerican calendars, magnetic reversals or invisible planets. The excess or information, plus the amount of doomsday possibilities explains the number of books and the 2012 film.
Laura you had the exact same claims back then in 2000 like now. A meteor would destroy Paris, Aliens would invade us, the bible predicted it… The only claim that was actually real was the computer bug but software developers have been fixing this years before so it could not happen. I was one of these developers that checked hundreds of thousands of lines of code for this bug. The reason why nothing happened is because we did a good job.
The only difference is that in current days a few hoaxers trying to rip you of your money by making you scared is massively creating web sites and Youtube clips.
It is maybe the "tecnology effect". I think that Y2K (that was like 1/1/1000) provoked a intense fear. But i think that 2012 movie is the first apocalyptic film based in real end of the world predictions.
And soon, many people will be afraid of the Final Judgement predicted for May 2011. Ha! Ha! They really have nothing to do (maybe you can make a "2011hoax.org" website).
PS: Why you do not add Mark Van Stone to the Guest Views list? He has a PhD in the University of Texas and is a Professor of Art History at Southwestern College. He is against the 2012 claims about the end of the world. He wrote an article for www.famsi.org, that explains why maians did not predicted the end of the world for 2012.
There are no "real" end of the world predictions for 2012 by the Maya.
If I'm not mistaken Tomy, I think Astro did a podcast interview with Dr. Mark Van Stone for 2012 hoax. Dr. Van Stone is a brilliant man. I'm hoping to get his book for Christmas! :-D
"There are no "real" end of the world predictions for 2012 by the Maya."
Exactly. By the Maya. Self-called prophets and people who look for money by making apocalyptic books (like Patrick Geryl) make their own prophecies. Of course, without any Scientific, historical or logical base. Giant planets in route of collision to Earth? The predictions are real. For them.
Well, May 2011 has now come and gone, so……..put aside Mr. Camping's prediction as another one of those fear-mongering, profit-making gimmicks.
And False Prophet
No man knows the day nor the hour when the world will end.
Become a debunker and help out those that are being fed up with lies spread by False scientists going after you'r money.
Practice what you want to and dont give up on you'r dreams my dream is to become a basketball player 'NBA'
I agree that a lot of the reason this is so big is due to technology. TV, internet…etc. However, it just seems too big to ignore or blow off….It's amazing that even NASA has had to step in. Like Laura, I feel like one side of me thinks it's so stupid ut another side is terrified. My husband says its stupid of me to worry about because it its gonn happen I can' stop it so I need to move on and the other big reason is because they are making a lot of money….Why is even Jesse Ventura speaking on it??
A failed wrestler and politician has got to make some money somehow. Why not do it by broadcasting rubbish to the uneducated?
Actually ignoring it and resisting it makes the fear even worse.
You have to accept it that it is there, thank it that it is so concerned about you to warn you and tell your fear that you will take charge of it from now on and just let it go.
Did you know that people that lose instant phobias spontaneous have one thing in common?
At a certain point in their live they suddenly start to realise now that their fear is so absurd and laughable that they have a big laugh about it and the fear just vanishes never to come back. This could happen to you now that you realize now that these people want to trick you into believing it.
Hi Monica,
There isn't ANY valid reason to believe anything unusual is going to happen in 2012.
"Why is even Jesse Ventura speaking on it??"
Why would you be even slightly concerned about the opinions of a washed up ex-wrestler turned conspiracy theorist? Being a wrestler, an actor, and a one term governor doesn't endow him with any special knowledge.
"James George Janos (born July 15, 1951), better known as Jesse Ventura, is an American politician, former governor of Minnesota, Navy UDT veteran, actor, and former radio and television talk show host. As a professional wrestler, he is best known for his nickname, Jesse "The Body" Ventura, and tenure in the World Wrestling Federation as a combatant and color commentator. In 2004, he was inducted into the company's Hall of Fame." - Wikipedia (83 references)
Whow! He did lot of things: "American politician, former governor of Minnesota, Navy UDT veteran, actor and former radio and television talk show host."
What Jesse said about 2012?
Both Bikenbeer and I already told you those things. Having been a one term governor makes him technically a politician. The only new thing mentioned was his having been in the navy. The talk show host role was what sparked mention of him to begin with, because he does that nutty show, Conspiracy Theory. The point was, none of this gives him any special knowledge about science or about 2012. If you want to know about wrestling, ask a wrestler. If you want to know about acting, ask an actor. If you want to know about astronomy, Physics, Geology, Archaeology, or History, ask people from those fields.
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