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I'm coming across more and more people who are getting their 2012 nonsense from Ivan Stein's website, particularly his AWFUL videos, which are just a mass of glaring scientific errors … this man and his rubbish really need a good debunking.
I agree.
Would you like to help?
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
Just took a look at this persons website, I literally began to laugh just by seeing the homepage. I'll read it a bit more when I have time, probably tomorrow.
Tata.
Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.
It's hard to know where to begin on Ivan Stein's videos, they are such a confused morass of scientific misconceptions and Junk Science.
Stein claims that reversals of the Earth's magnetic field are caused by objects hitting the Earth, reversing it's actual rotation. This is total nonsense. The angular momentum of the Earth is ENORMOUS. To stop it rotating, let alone reverse it, would require an impact from a body of comparable mass to the Earth itself. He suggests Comets as one possibility, but these are nowhere near massive enough. The nuclei of the largest comets are only a few tens of miles in diameter (the coma and tails are larger, but these contain very little mass). Reversing the Earth's rotation with a comet is like trying to reverse a spinning bicycle wheel by throwing a peanut at it.
An impacting body that did have sufficient mass to reverse the Earth's spin, would not do so in any sort of controlled fashion. It would not just gently set it spinning in the opposite direction. It would be a catastrophic collision. Huge amounts of kinetic energy would be converted to heat. It would destroy the planet. And given that the geological record shows there have been hundreds of these magnetic field reversals, Stein's theory would require the Earth to have been hit hundreds of times by planets!! Earth would, by now, be just a collection of rocks. Also, it is known that geomagnetic reversals occur very slowly, with a gradual decline in field strength over tens of thousands of years, not "sudden impact" reversals.
While the detailed mechanisms of Geomagnetic Reversal are still being debated, there is a general consensus that they involve turbulence and other changes in the flow of liquid metals in the Earth's core. A few theories do include external impact events as possible triggers, of for example mantle-core shear forces, but none propose wholesale reversals of Earth's spin. Stein's theory is utter nonsense.
Stein also claims that comet Hale-Bopp was "supposed" to strike the Earth "but they forgot to take into account the fact that it slows down as going around the Sun". Wrong. Comets follow elliptical orbits, and travel FASTEST during the part of their orbit closest to the Sun.
Stein then goes on to say "we pass the Galactic Equator every 25,630 years". Wrong again. He is confusing a physical Plane Crossing with the Precession of the Equinoxes, which only causes a visual line-of-sight alignment. This is probably THE most common misconception among 2012 nuts, although it is hard to understand why, because the two celestial motions are so entirely different:-
Having got the timing of Plane Crossing all wrong, Stein then goes on to get the physics all wrong. The real reason for the Solar System moving up and down within the Galaxy was explained above. Stein however invokes some vague "rotational force coming off the Galaxy". To illustrate this, he shows a photograph of The Cartwheel Galaxy. NOTHING he says about this is remotely true:-
The Cartwheel Galaxy is actually the result of a head on collision between two Galaxies. What Stein describes as "a ring of energy coming off the galactic equator" is actually a ring of stars forming, due to compression of the interstellar gas and dust in the collision. It is matter condensing into stars, not a "ring of energy". And what Stein calls "a ball of energy that was shot out of the middle of the galaxy" is actually the remains of the smaller galaxy which passed through the larger one, and is now still moving away from the collision zone.
The real astronomy of the Cartwheel Galaxy is beautiful and awesome … see http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/galex-20060111.html … physicists have also produced particle simulations of the collision … see http://burro.cwru.edu/SSAnims … It is an damn shame that all of this fascinating science is available, yet people are diverted away from it by Stein's pathetic nonsense.
Other 2012 nuts speak of the galactic plane containing "lines of centrifugal force" which will somehow affect the Earth. In fact, Centrifugal force is Inertia, and is a property of objects in motion. It is not a "force" that can "come off" rotating objects and fly through space. This is all just meaningless pseudoscience.
And then in the video, come some truly jaw-droppingly stupid statements from Stein;-
And people BELIEVE this idiot !!!
Sigh.
I may watch the rest of his videos sometime, but for now I've had enough.
I've made a start at ivan stein. I'll include your comments, if that's ok with you.
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
Excellent. Please use anything you want.
Well, persons' whose name that I attempted (Not really sure why) to pronounce, but failed, quite miserably in doing so, so I will just call you Hex..
I just love how you blew Stein out of the water. I applaud you, good Sir. In fact, I think that post deserves many applause.
Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.
A note as to why I gave a cycle time of 33 million years for the Solar System crossing the galactic plane; The periodicity of the sine wave motion, measured peak-to-peak, is an estimated 66 million years. However, one full cycle includes two crossings of the galactic equator, so the crossings happen with an estimated period of 33 million years, and since we are talking here of crossings, not peaks, I think the 33 million figure is more relevant.
Also, the sinusoidal motion is only apparent to an observer at an imaginary point outside of our galaxy. From within the rotating reference frame of our galaxy it is an up/down motion. But since there are no "absolute" reference frames, both motions are correct.
This is Version 2 of my Ivan Stein debunking. Not sure if I should be posting it here or emailing it direct? It includes some corrections and quite a few additions. Hopefully you can replace the current version on the Stein page with this one?
START
It is hard to know where to begin on Ivan Stein's videos, they are such a confused morass of scientific misconceptions.
Stein claims that reversals of the Earth's magnetic field are caused by objects hitting the Earth, reversing it's actual rotation. This is total nonsense. The angular momentum of the Earth is ENORMOUS. To stop it rotating, let alone reverse it, would require an impact from a body of comparable mass to the Earth itself. He suggests Comets as one possibility, but these are nowhere near massive enough. Even assuming a high velocity, their momentum (p=mv) is insufficient. The nuclei of the largest comets are only a few tens of miles in diameter (the coma and tails are larger, but these contain very little mass). The mass of Halley's comet, for example, is estimated at 2 × 10^14 kg, while the Earth's mass is roughly 6 × 10^24 kg. This means that the Earth contains the mass of about 30,000,000,000 Halley-sized comets (thirty thousand million!). Reversing the Earth's spin with a comet is like trying to reverse a helicopter rotor by throwing a peanut at it.
If an impacting body did contain sufficient mass to reverse the Earth's spin, it would not do so in any sort of controlled fashion. It would not just gently set it spinning in the opposite direction. It would be a catastrophic collision. Huge amounts of kinetic energy would be converted to heat. It would destroy the planet. And given that the geological record shows there have been hundreds of these magnetic field reversals, Stein's theory would require the Earth to have been hit hundreds of times by planets! Earth would, by now, be just some scattered fragments of rock. Also, it is known that geomagnetic reversals occur very slowly, with a gradual decline in field strength over tens of thousands of years, not "sudden impact" reversals.
While the detailed mechanisms of Geomagnetic Reversal are still being debated, there is a general consensus that they involve turbulence and other changes in the flow of liquid metals in the Earth's core. A few theories do include external impact events as possible triggers, of for example mantle-core shear forces, but none propose wholesale reversals of Earth's spin. Stein's theory is utter nonsense.
Stein also claims that comet Hale-Bopp was "supposed" to strike the Earth but the scientists "forgot" to take into account the fact that it "slows down as going around the Sun". Wrong again. Comets follow elliptical orbits, and travel FASTEST during the part of their orbit closest to the Sun.
Stein then goes on to say that we "pass the Galactic Equator" every 25,630 years. He shows a diagram in which the Solar System starts off above the galactic plane, becomes level with it in 2012, and then moves below it.
THIS IS TOTALLY WRONG.
The period of 25,630 years that he refers to is for the Precession Of The Equinoxes. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Solar System physically passing through the equator or plane of the Galaxy. Stein's diagram must rank as one of the most misleading in history.
This confusion between the Precession Of The Equinoxes (hereafter abbreviated to "Precession") and Passing Through The Galactic Plane ("Plane Passing") is very common among 2012 fanatics. However, they are totally different:-
So now, having confused Precession with Plane Passing, Stein goes on to "explain" what causes it. The real reason why the Solar System moves vertically within the plane of the Galaxy was explained above. Stein however invokes some vague "rotational force coming off the Galaxy". To illustrate this, he shows a photograph of The Cartwheel Galaxy. NOTHING he says about this is remotely true:-
The Cartwheel Galaxy is actually the result of a head on collision between two Galaxies. What Stein describes as "a ring of energy coming off the galactic equator" is actually a ring of stars forming, due to compression of the interstellar gas and dust in the collision. It is matter condensing into stars, not a "ring of energy". And what Stein calls "a ball of energy that was shot out of the middle of the galaxy" is actually the remains of the smaller galaxy which passed through the larger one, and is now still moving away from the collision zone.
The real astronomy of the Cartwheel Galaxy is beautiful and awesome … see http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/galex-20060111.html … physicists have also used Supercomputers to model particle simulations of the collision … see http://burro.cwru.edu/SSAnims … It is a damn shame that all of this fascinating science is available, yet people are diverted away from it by Stein's pathetic nonsense.
At various times, Stein refers to "the energy field that exists at the Galactic Equator", or a "rotational force coming off the galaxy". Other 2012 fanatics speak of similar ill-defined "energies" and "lines of centrifugal force";
There is no concentration or build up of gravity associated with the galactic plane (although there will be local variations due to the amount of matter in a given region). The gravitational pull from the matter at the galactic centre, including the black hole, depends on the distance from it. An object near the galactic equator will feel no more pull from the galactic centre than an object that is north or south of the equator at the same radial distance. And regarding a "rotational force coming off the galaxy", this is naive pseudoscience. Centrifugal force is a consequence of Inertia. It is a property possessed by objects in motion. It is not a separate "force" that can "come off" objects or fly through space to hit other objects (for example, the clothes inside a spin drier will be centrifuged, those held an inch outside the drum will not).
The above misconceptions are popular because most 2012 fanatics do not understand simple celestial mechanics, or how orbits work, or how co-planarity arises. Instead they have naive and vague ideas about "lines of centrifugal force", "alignments", and "energies". Stein appeals to them because he speaks their language.
But to continue with the videos… we now come to three jaw-droppingly stupid statements from Stein;-
Stein claims that when he was younger, he was able to squint at the Sun, and its colour was orange or yellow. But now it is too bright to look at, and the colour has changed to white. Does he not realise that astronomers can accurately detect even the smallest of changes in the light from astronomical objects using instruments such as Spectroscopes? While there are some detectable changes in the Sun's spectra, the gross visible changes that Stein suggests are nonsense.
These are such deeply ignorant statements that one wonders whether Stein actually believes them. He drops a hint that this is so, when he says, with some doubt in his voice, "at least that's what I remember from high school". Is this just part of his general anti-mainstream agenda? Or does he really believe that what's taught in schools is that the Solar System just popped out fully formed from the big bang? Either way, it's a lie.
What is actually taught, is that an enormous number of changes have taken place, over billions of years, on every scale, between the big bang and today's Solar System;
The thin disc of our Galaxy was not formed until billions of years after the big bang - then came many generations of stars - being born - carrying out nucleosynthesis - dying in supernovas - seeding the galaxy with heavier elements - then our Solar System began to form - condensing from a molecular cloud - forming a protoplanetary disc - accreting planetesimals - regrouping through countless chaotic collisions - forming planets and moons - the "late heavy bombardment" - and so on. Hardly "static" is it.
Given this long history of changes (each of which is the subject of voluminous scientific publications) Stein's claim is laughable.
Stein then moves on to the Mayan Calendars, which he tries to correlate with the Earth's "passing through the galactic plane at 25,630 year intervals". As was explained previously, this simply does not happen on that time scale, so the support that this supposedly gives to the Mayan Calendars vanishes.
The videos then move onto Stein's version of Geology, which appears, to me, to be equally naive as his physics and astronomy, but I would rather this part be commented on by a Geologist.
The remaining videos contain nothing of any substance, just lots of spiritual rambling and vacuous new-age woo.
mhexE7D7
YOU will with the ones that wont know what to do when the shit hits the fan or try to buy your way to saftey when it does
If the eath flips its axis by 180 deg it would rotate the other way without stopping it's rotation or actually reversing it. Just mark an arrow going one direction on a ball, flip it over 180 degrees and the direction of the arrow will point the other way around.
You still need to manufacture the energy required to "flip it over 180 degrees." Where do you think that's going to come from?
The simplistic understanding of physics that pervades these woo claims never ceases to amaze.
I left highschool because all of the bollocks. Now apparently also science is becoming a 'commercial industry'… I'm going back Alex Jones and his InfoWars ;)
I left highschool because all of the bollocks.
If that was done in the interest of bettering yourself, I humbly suggest that you reconsider.
Now apparently also science is becoming a 'commercial industry'…
I really have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
I'm going back Alex Jones and his InfoWars ;)
Well, if reality is truly of such little concern to you….
After reading these post I have to say that all your ignorance is going to be the death of you, you are all in for a big surprise. WAKE UP out of your deep sleep and break through that tiny shell you all call reality!!!
The nice thing about reality is that it is… well… real.
Would you care to support your statement, or is this just a drive-by posting? If so, you forgot the evil laugh… "Muaahahahaha!"
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
So, going by what you're saying… we have to ignore reality to accept the 2012 Hoax, correct? So basically, you're more or less asserting that reality is a lie and that anything and everything can and will happen upon 12/21/12. As long as you don't apply logic, or reality, to it.
But, the REALITY (GASP) of the situation is, there's no proof backing any of this 2012 stuff up. It's largely lies and modern-day stupidity that has made 2012 as big as it is. You New Agers seem to constantly ignore the sheer fact that the Maya themselves held no significance for the date, what so ever. At least not in the light you all believe.
Spiritual Transformation? No.
End of the World? No.
See, the >ONE< thing is the first thing to be debunked. Everything else you all claim is just added on to try to hold some semblance to an insignificant date.
My apologies to you, but I am wide awake (Well, I am a little tired right now due to it being 4 in the blippin' morning), and I see reality for what it is. Perhaps it is you who needs to adopt a skeptics point of view and grasp reality back from whence it was wrenched from your hands by some YouTube idiot?
Or you're just the same troll with a new name. Either or! Buzz off.
Oh, and because I love asking you folks this question…
Can you tell me what will happen on or around 12/21/12? Please and thank you.
I wonder if Copernicus heard the words, "I'm wide awake! I know what reality is. Sun-centric Hoax!". There are plenty of incorrect notions out there, outside of science as well as within it. There are though, enough unexplained circumstances that point at 12/21/12 as a significant point in time as to not yet warrant the word "hoax". We are in fact Plane Passing by the way. That's why the Mayan calendar is in evidence. But, just like we go back to January at the end of our calendar, theirs was ment to start over as well. It's not the end of the world. Just like the world did not end 65 million years ago. It just ended for some. Beware confidence in science.
There are though, enough unexplained circumstances that point at 12/21/12 as a significant point in time as to not yet warrant the word "hoax".
Name one.
We are in fact Plane Passing by the way.
No, we aren't.
That's why the Mayan calendar is in evidence.
The Meso-American Long-Count calendar is just what it's called: a count of days. It's not "in evidence" of anything.
But, just like we go back to January at the end of our calendar, theirs was ment to start over as well.
It's not the end of the world.
Ergo, "end of the world" claims run the gamut from ignorance, to idiocy, to outright hoax.
Just like the world did not end 65 million years ago.
And you have some evidence that 2012 has anything to do with something that happened 65 million years ago?
It just ended for some.
It didn't end for anybody of anything. People and things in the world end every day.
Beware confidence in science.
I think you should be beware your own ignorance, because I suspect you're wallowing in it.
Really, Mr. Ju, a personal attack? Please do not give me any more insights regarding your character. And, I assure you, there is no ignorance wallowing within Cornel's Astrobiology Department.
As you may be aware, there is no defined equator of the Galaxy. We are currency traveling at roughly 7km/sec northward through the Galactic disk. The plane crossing I am referring to is in relation to the spiral arm we are a part of, the Orion arm, between the sagitarian and aquarian arms. The effects of this I refer you to the paper written by Michael Gillman and Hilary Erenler in 2008. You can find this in Volume 7, Issue 1 of the "International Jounal of Astrobiology" published by Cambridge University. It details terrestrial effects caused by predictable galactic events such as spiral arm crossings and galactic oscillations. It also studies these periodicities having a wide set of biological, geological, and climactic events.
And still, the 2012 phenomena does not warrant the word hoax. It is a prediction based on multiple sources of information, some scientifically provable, many not. Saying something is a hoax before it is proven is making a prediction about a prediction. Which is all I was saying in the first place. Have a nice day Mr. Ju.
Ararm, between the sagitarian and aquarian arms.
Really, Mr. Ju, a personal attack? Please do not give me any more insights regarding your character.
I must have missed that part while proofreading. If you refer to "I think you should be beware your own ignorance, because I suspect you're wallowing in it," then I regret any discomfort my honest assessment might have caused you, but I'm confident that you will get over it and be no worse for the wear.
And, I assure you, there is no ignorance wallowing within Cornel's Astrobiology Department.
That would be Cornell, and that university does not have an astrobiology department that I'm aware of. They do, however, have a prestigious Department of Astronomy.
If you're claiming to attend that particular institution in some capacity, color me skeptical when you struggle to spell the university's name.
As you may be aware, there is no defined equator of the Galaxy.
Cornell instructors probably cover galactic coordinates at some point in their astronomy curriculum.
The plane crossing I am referring to is in relation to the spiral arm we are a part of, the Orion arm, between the sagitarian and aquarian arms. The effects of this I refer you to the paper written by Michael Gillman and Hilary Erenler in 2008. You can find this in Volume 7, Issue 1 of the "International Jounal of Astrobiology" published by Cambridge University. It details terrestrial effects caused by predictable galactic events such as spiral arm crossings and galactic oscillations.
From the abstract: "The total estimated passage time through four arms is 703.8 Myr."
And, of course, a separate paper by John Alroy, also from 2008, concludes in contradiction, "…the trend may be driven by taxonomic biases and the rates vary in accord with a simple log normal distribution, so there is no sharp distinction between background and mass extinctions. Furthermore, the lack of any significant autocorrelation in the data is inconsistent with macroevolutionary theories of periodicity or self-organized criticality."
Cyclic extinction via cosmic cataclysm hypotheses are nothing new, going back at least to the Nemesis hypothesis of the early 1980s, if not sooner. The only thing they have in common to date, aside from thematic similarity, is an overwhelming abundance of no convincing conclusions.
That aside, nothing in your reference supports your contention that our Solar System is "Plane Passing." Even if we are, nothing in your reference suggests this is of any significance to humans, as the events in question are thought to occur over millions of years. Even if we are "Plane Passing" and this event has some capacity for destruction, nothing in your reference suggests any human generation or even the human species will be around to witness the end result. In fact, it suggests the opposite.
It also studies these periodicities having a wide set of biological, geological, and climactic events.
Amusingly, a 2009 paper from the same journal concludes otherwise.
And still, the 2012 phenomena does not warrant the word hoax.
Yes, it does, and there's oodles of information on this website showing why. Not every 2012er is a hoaxer, of course, but 2012-centered claims by and large qualify as "something intended to deceive or defraud," at least in regard to the originators of most of those claims.
It is a prediction based on multiple sources of information, some scientifically provable, many not.
"It" isn't any one thing, and I challenge you to proffer one 2012 doom claim that is "scientifically provable" in the least.
Saying something is a hoax before it is proven is making a prediction about a prediction.
No, it's analyzing a claim. If you predict that you will let go of an ordinary golf ball, and it will then shoot out of the atmosphere, reach escape velocity and settle into a stable orbit around Jupiter five minutes later, it won't take a lot of effort to show why your prediction is ridiculous. If you want it to be taken seriously, you need a whole new set of physical laws to operate from, coupled with a justification of why they work better than current theories. Incidentally, this is more or less the same boat 2012ers like Patrick Geryl and various Nibiroids find themselves in.
Which is all I was saying in the first place.
No, you didn't say that. But now that you have, I still have to disagree. See above.
Have a nice day Mr. Ju.
It's The Great Juju to you, but thanks anyway.
Ararm, between the sagitarian and aquarian arms.
Which means … nothing.
In adjective form, that should be "sagittarian," btw, though we usually just say Sagittarius.
It details terrestrial effects caused by predictable galactic events such as spiral arm crossings and galactic oscillations.
You mean a galactic oscillation or crossing a spiral arm only takes one year or so? Or even a day?
If this effect does not happen in such a short time then it has nothing to do with any of the 2012 claims.
After reading the above by "The Great Juju", I got the impression that he must be a most knowledgeable person. So, in the hope of learning more, I had a look on the web for "The Great Juju", thinking he might have his own web site. Alas, only two references = one in connection with video games and the other in connection with witchcraft!! My questions to "The Great Juju" are: What are your qualifications? and What do you believe in?
Alas, only two references = one in connection with video games
It's possible that I have a dormant account on some gaming board(s) as "TheGreatJuju," but the Google results you see (e.g. "The Great Juju Challenge") have nothing to do with me. I didn't even know such a thing existed. My user name is meant to be sarcastic, and I think my most heavy usage of it by far has been right here on 2012Hoax.
and the other in connection with witchcraft!!
I don't recall ever posting anywhere about witchcraft, except perhaps to criticize or ridicule it.
My questions to "The Great Juju" are: What are your qualifications?
I'm a computer programmer, writer, musician and amateur astronomer. If you're asking whether I am a professional in some field of natural science, the answer is no.
What do you believe in?
In regard to what, exactly? I don't believe in witchcraft, magic, demons, spirits or gods, if that's what you're wondering.
What a Maroon! Hey, sorry, the team crowded into the commons to shake their booties tonight. I had planned to reveal the shocking truth this evening, but was preempted by a special bulletin obviously posted by fun-loving liberals. I am attending for scientific purposes only, really. 2012 is NOT a "hoax"! I am the superb phylactery!
What a Maroon!
That would be "moron" as in, "It's 'Cornell,' not 'Cornel,' moron."
2012 is NOT a "hoax"!
Yes, it is, as demonstrated extensively in the content linked to your left.
Do you sleep? The Maroons are a West African culture that are associated with the term "juju" and the practices associated with it. The name eventually became a derivation of the the verb "marooning". Anyway, yea, ok, Cornell, got it. As a programmer, please write a better spell-checker. Later tonight I will like to discuss my views on why Enceladus is pumping out 14 gigawatts of energy instead of the predicted 1.4 gigawatts, of which 1.1Gw are tidal interactions attributed to it's satellite neighbors and Saturn, and 0.3Gw of which are natural internal radioactive decay. I say it's keyed to 2012. As well as all the other temperature increases within the celestial bodies of our solar system.
Ah yes. The energy output of Enceladus. So you've latched on to some recent scientific findings and are trying to link them to 2012. I suspect (in fact I know) your efforts will be doomed to failure. Your wording is even identical to those in the link I've given, which also names the scientists involved in the investigation. I'm sure you will be communicating your views to them. Let us know how you get on.
Do you sleep?
No.
The Maroons are a West African culture that are associated with the term "juju" and the practices associated with it. The name eventually became a derivation of the the verb "marooning".
And here I thought it was a voodoo thing. Hey, learn something every day. You were just trying to be funny for lack of anything better to say, so here's a belated ha ha ha.
Anyway, yea, ok, Cornell, got it.
Good!
As a programmer, please write a better spell-checker.
I don't know what browser you're using, but Firefox highlights "Cornel" as an unknown word. If applicable, please consider discarding Internet Exploder!
Later tonight I will like to discuss my views on why Enceladus is pumping out 14 gigawatts of energy instead of the predicted 1.4 gigawatts, of which 1.1Gw are tidal interactions attributed to it's satellite neighbors and Saturn, and 0.3Gw of which are natural internal radioactive decay
Whatever ikifungwa your mashua.
I say it's keyed to 2012. As well as all the other temperature increases within the celestial bodies of our solar system.
Yeah, this.
And this. That old canard has been around in woo circles for a while, generally devoid of the actual science in lieu of various wild fantasies, and I don't mean the good kind.
There are always opposites. The trick is to recognize that which is opposite to your belief system and honor it, allow it to be the naturally occurring opposite it should be instead of feeling somehow disturbed for its natural existence. When we allow ourselves to be disturbed due to the natural world, we disturb what we are made of, thus creating anger, illness, fear, resentment, an imbalance to the very core of your being. Any one of these are not good for your body, let alone several at one time. Does it really matter to you what Ivan says. If not, so what. Let it pass as simply an opposite of what you know, no more, no less. Remain at peace within your self. In the end, you are all you have. In ceremony my prayers include that all of us can at least have this personal peace and simply allow another the freedom of their personal right to choose their own way. waste' - that's good
If you had bothered to read the purpose of this website, you would not have to ask if the false claims of Ivan Stein matter to us. We feel false claims hurt people, and thus we have chosen to respond, each in our own way.
As an aside, doing so doesn't endanger my inner peace in the slightest. Nor does it infringe on another's freedom to make their own choices.
There is a catch-phrase that applies here: Your freedom to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose.
Personally, I don't care what Stein says, or really any of the others. I know that their ideas are without merit, completely unsupported by facts, and rely on logical fallacies rather than reason. I'd be perfectly happy to let them carry on down their own primrose paths, if it were not for one thing, and that is the effect that these people are having on others.
This site provides only a small measure of balance to the equation. The sites that are spreading fear outnumber us, they have more resources than we do, and better marketing. The only thing we have are these: Truth, logic and reason. We ask for nothing, we sell nothing, and the occasional "thank you" is worth every penny spent on keeping this site up and running.
If you ask me whether I am angry, I will respond by sending you some of the heart-wrenching emails I have received from children who have been deeply disturbed by the things said by Stein and others. Ask Rose if she is angry at the people who fed her daughter this nonsense, and then ask yourself if anger isn't the appropriate response.
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
I'm always amused at fearmongers coming here hoping they can talk us out of opposing their baseless claims. Guess they fear us, despite how badly outnumbered we are. Whether it's the New Age Drivel form, or the implied Here Comes a Lawsuit form, or anything in between, it's all the same.
Edit: As an aside, I'm really impressed with the people who started this and put some much personal time into it. You all started something that is making a difference, and the fearmongers know it.
Nobody said that you, Ivan or anyone shouldn't be free to think or believe whatever you wish. However, baseless and/or impossible claims remain baseless and/or impossible. That's just the way of it. Some of those claims can harm a lot of people, and this site exists to counter those claims. Nothing posted here impedes anyone's ability to "choose their own way," and if this is the best you can come up with in regard to Stein, maybe you should just take your own advice.
There are always opposites. The trick is to recognize that which is opposite to your belief system and honor it,
No, the "trick" is to use the scientific method to find out which of the opposites is ACTUALLY TRUE. Otherwise we end up in the everything-is-right-nobody-is-wrong wilderness of nonsense known as New Age. (And why should I "honour" falsehoods?)
allow it to be the naturally occurring opposite it should be instead of feeling somehow disturbed for its natural existence.
Bullcrap physics and bad astronomy, such a Stein's, are not "naturally occurring", they are the product of ignorance and laziness.
When we allow ourselves to be disturbed due to the natural world, we disturb what we are made of, thus creating anger, illness, fear, resentment, an imbalance to the very core of your being.
Meaningless New Age waffle.
Any one of these are not good for your body,
And Stein's nonsense is not good for your mind.
Does it really matter to you what Ivan says.
Yes it does, because he fills peoples heads with garbage, when they could be looking into a whole world of fascinating and evidence-supported real science out there. I'm thinking particularly of young people here.
If not, so what. Let it pass as simply an opposite of what you know,
But it's not "just an opposite", is it, it's lies and misinformation.
Remain at peace within your self.
I am at peace with myself. And I feel even more at peace with myself after I've spent some time doing my small part in opposing the lies and scaremongering of Stein and others.
There are always opposites. The trick is to recognize that which is opposite to your belief system and honor it, allow it to be the naturally occurring opposite it should be instead of feeling somehow disturbed for its natural existence.
2012 hoaxers are opposites? You mean that these the people that hurt children and young parents are opposites?
Do you have children?
Heard of year 2k , yeh it was worse than 2012, its just like 2012 take an example because real astronomers dont support 2012 it all started with the maya and kept growing with nonsence.
so you can and tell that.
No man knows the day nor the hour when the world will end.
Become a debunker and help out those that are being fed up with lies spread by False scientists going after you'r money.
Practice what you want to and dont give up on you'r dreams my dream is to become a basketball player 'NBA'
Mr JuJu et al, Nice arguments, entertaining, Juju is a clever guy. I agree with your arguments about Ivan whats his name. Note, I am not an 'astronomer' and I am not able to cite recent journals or papers (LOL). But I am a geodesist/ cartographer from a previous professional life so I pretty much understood what you said (and agree). I'm a first time visitor basically researching 2012 phenomenon. It was refreshing to see some logical debate something, beyond visions blind faith and conjecture, which Ivan and numerous others believe. Still I want to make the point that all of us have to follow our instinct and belief whatever that may be. I think intuition combined with logical and academically correct info plays a part in all of his this as well. While intuition alone is not an ideal compass, it is useful for drawing info together and providing a schema to information and knowledge regardless of overall belief. A valid way to analyse complex information / problems is to use an iterative approach with hypotheses models and deduction with info recently digested. Why am I saying all this, Well not all of us can spend days/hours thinking about these things and being 100% correct. I would tend not to be too harsh on people who get a few things wrong, because overall they may still be more on track than those who think or say nothing at all. Don't bother about me though, I intend to disappear into the "ether" now (yes I know this a very dated philosophic concept). Have fun my friends, we are all in this together, perhaps its just that we are into different things
I have to quickly say something - actually my comments about the correction of Ivan Stein were meant to directed to 'Hex' (mHexe7d7 whatever) is the smart guy i was referring to). No doubt Juju is smart too, but I made the mistake of attributing the 'Hex' explanation to The Great Juju. apologies. Jujus name was on my mind after reading through the posts with maroon/moron, which I though were funny as they unfolded. I wanted to add, that I have always been a man of science, but like I alluded, facts themselves need something more added to them to give them structure/schema. I don't know what exactly to make of doomsday 2012-ers, because there are may other permutations of the issue beyond the calamity that most of them expect. Actually I can answer the question "what will happen on 22-12-12 or whatever the date is supposed to be. Answer - Nothing more than whatever happened on the day before, ie 21/12/12. If anything of great astronomical significance was going to happen, it probably already has in 2011. Meaning any 'natural' alignments or catastrophies which were going to happen would simply not 'wait' for that date. People, this 'war' (and I use that word on purpose) is not about physics or astronomy, its a different war, but perhaps what I am talking about is not meant for this scientific forum.
no one has mentioned what the ancients had to say about the galactic alignment and the effects it had on earth and the solar system
check out what the sumerian, Egyptians and mayans had to say?
they were not writing comic books!!!
The ancients had nothing to say about the galactic alignment because it is a meaningless invention of new-age woo artists of the late 20th century.
Of course, if you've got any evidence to disprove that, by all means present it.
But you won't, will you?
Still I want to make the point that all of us have to follow our instinct and belief whatever that may be. I think intuition combined with logical and academically correct info plays a part in all of his this as well.
Unfortunately, belief, instinct, intuition, et al. are insufficient tools for explaining how the universe works, and science by definition is an attempt to the minimize the impact of these very things upon the collection and analysis of data. Otherwise we would have have both everything and nothing to work with.
Actually I can answer the question "what will happen on 22-12-12 or whatever the date is supposed to be. Answer - Nothing more than whatever happened on the day before, ie 21/12/12.
Or the day before that, or the day before that….
People, this 'war' (and I use that word on purpose) is not about physics or astronomy, its a different war, but perhaps what I am talking about is not meant for this scientific forum.
I don't know what you're talking about, but I tend to call the phenomenon in general an unfortunate side-effect of the Information Age, coupled with widespread lack of critical thinking, independent of any one scientific discipline.
