Panicking again

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Panicking again

Andy (guest) 12 Dec 2009 08:12

Hi again.

Lately I've started being afraid again.

1. I've read the list of the popes, and supposedly the current pope is the one before the last one. Is there any possibility at all this document is real and not a fraud? Because it seems like a lot of these prophecies have fitted past popes.

2. Regarding the Mayan calender - is it possible that monument 6 predicted not the end of the world, but a possible war on this date?

I started being afraid of these prophecies, not sure why. It seems like a really big coincidence - the cycle of the Mayan calender is ending, the last pope is coming, and the LHC is about to go into higher energies. Can you please calm me down again?

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 12 Dec 2009 16:55

Hi Andy,
Saint Malachy did list the popes, using phrases supposedly describing them. Many who believe in what he wrote think that he was saying that when Peter II becomes the pope, the Roman Catholic Church will reassert its authority over all Christians.

Monument 6 says something about one of their gods returning. It doesn't say anything about the world ending. Since we don't follow the Mayan religions or believe in their various gods, I don't think we need to worry about them thinking that one of them will return.

The LHC isn't any threat to us. We have had particle colliders in operation for many years. The LHC is bigger than other colliders, but it isn't going to destroy us. In the unlikely event that it does manage to create micro black holes, they won't last long enough or be large enough to have any effect. For anything to be affected by a black hole, it has to get to its event horizon. With a microsopic black hole lasting a microsecond, that can't happen.

Don't let the doomsday proponents panic you. They are just sensationalizing everything because fear sells.

Re: Panicking again

Andy (guest) 12 Dec 2009 19:25

If the prophecy is true, then it's a bit scary. Have all of the popes matched their descriptions perfectly? It's a bit scary to have a list like this where there is only one pope remaining until the end. Does the Vatican believe in this prophecy? I know that according to Christianity no one knows when the world will end, but could it possibly be a warning sign or something?

Is the monument meant to be taken literally? Because supposedly it has the year "2012" next to the god of war. But I guess you're right and it doesn't mean much. It's just that there's a lot of coincidence in the next few years.

I'm trying to educate myself on the LHC, but it's not easy when psychopaths like Ivan Gorelick spam all of the physics forums and try to scare people with their theories. Even though deep down I know they are not right, it's getting to me. I wish I could be relaxed like the people here and not be terrified by this crap, but if I see something I don't understand it's easy to be scared by this.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 12 Dec 2009 20:15

Hi again Andy,
The "descriptions" of the popes are just phrases that some people have interpreted as being related to the popes in one way of another. For instance, they are using the phrase "glory of the olive" to say that it refers to the current pope, Benedict XVI. They say that taking the name Benedict links him to the Benedictines and that that links him to the Olivetans. It's rather convoluted reasoning. I don't get myself too worked up over things that can be interpreted any way you like.

Monument 6 is partially defaced, but a translation of what is legible is:
"Tzuhtz-(a)j-oom u(y)-uxlajuun pik
The Thirteenth [b'ak'tun] will end
(ta) Chan Ajaw ux(-te') Uniiw.
(on) 4 Ajaw, the 3rd of Uniiw [3 K'ank'in].
Uht-oom Ek'-…
Black … will occur.
Y-em(al) … Bolon Yookte' K'uh ta-chak-ma…
(It will be) the descent(?) of Bolon Yookte' K'uh to the great"

As you can see, no one is sure what the inscription actually said. There is no indication that ancient Mayans thought the date would be the end of the world, and the Mayans of today don't think so either.

I don't surf tinfoil hat websites or worry about what new age goofballs post on forums. You should see some of the screwball claims people have posted in their rants at us. Actual science sites, written by scientists say that the LHC is not a threat to us.

Don't look for things to frighten you. No real scientist says that anything out of the ordinary is going to happen in 2012. I hope this helps.

Re: Panicking again

Andy (guest) 13 Dec 2009 06:34

Thanks for replying Alene, but I'm still not sure.

According to the prophecy, they said that there will be 112 popes until the end of the world. Some people think it's a hoax but apparently there's evidence for it to be real, and all of the phrases have matched the popes in one way or another. I never believed in god but I'm frightened by this for some reason.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/malachy.htm

True, it seems like the Mayans didn't predict an apocalypse or anything, but it just seems like a huge coincidence that their calender cycle is ending close to the election of the last pope according to the prophecy, and close to the LHC going into higher energies.

I'm not as terrified by the LHC as I used to be, but there's always that thought that says "what if they are wrong and magnetic monopoles are possible" or something similar.

Do you find yourself frightened by stuff like these sometimes or am I the only paranoid around here? It seems like most people are not scared anymore by the LHC and 2012.

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 14:47

How many popes have there been?

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 13 Dec 2009 20:10

Hi Andy,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. No, I have never for an instant believed or been frightened by this money-making hoax.

Saint Malachy lived from 1094 to 1148. The earliest written version of this "prophecy" is from 1595. The first time the prophecy is mentioned is on a handwritten account by patriarch Alfonso Chacón (a.k.a Alphonsus Ciacconus, 1540-1599) in 1590 (this account would be later published, in 1595, by the abovementioned historian Arnold de Wyon); in this account, Chacón only comments the prophecies until the papacy of Urban VII (whose papacy only lasted September 1590, and was the current pope at the time Chacón wrote the comment).

The Prophecy of the Popes, attributed to Saint Malachy, is a list of 112 short phrases in Latin. They purport to describe each of the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few anti-popes), beginning with Pope Celestine II (elected in 1143) and concluding with a pope described in the prophecy as "Peter the Roman", whose pontificate will end in the destruction of the city of Rome.

I don't know who decided to throw this in with the 2012 BS, but they have thrown in everything but the kitchen sink. It can't even be proven that Saint Malachy made the "prophecy" since it doesn't show up until more than 400 years after his death. The con artists are adding everything they can think of that might scare people and keep them buying their books and doomsday merchandise. I have been through a number of predicted doomsdays.

As for the LHC, people are always frightened of any new technology. I'm not concerned about it.

Re: Panicking again

bikenbeer2000 13 Dec 2009 12:27

Hi Andy
I'll get straight to the point.
Prophecy does not work.
As Dr. Ian O'Neill (one of the debunkers of 2012) says, "Time is an arrow moving in one direction and we are all moving along with it." It is not possible for someone to leap off and have a sneak preview around the next corner. It violates the rules of cause and effect. There are few areas subject to more deception and falsehood than prophecy. Here's how it works:
1) Be vague, like Nostradamus and St. Malachy. That way, people can find more ways of linking your prediction to an event after it happens. For example, describing a future pope as "pastor" or "shepherd" is never going to be very wide of the mark.
2) Make many predictions by pure guesswork and the law of probability says that you will be correct some of the time. Human nature being what it is, people will remember the hits and forget the misses. Did you know that the web-bot predicted a global financial crisis on October 25th this year? Its followers are hoping everyone will forget that one. If it had been correct, you can guarantee that they would have shouted it from the rooftops.
3) Invent your correct prediction. After an event, claim that it was predicted. This works with followers of Nostradamus and Mother Shipton, for example. Look at all the people that claim to have predicted 9/11. Wouldn't it have been so much more convincing if they had mentioned it before it happened?
Why don't we see a headline every week "Psychic Wins Lottery"? Why do bookmakers flourish? The James Randi Educational Foundation has $1 million on offer for anyone who can demonstrate genuine psychic or paranormal ability under controlled conditions. No-one has even got past the preliminary testing stage. That in itself should tell you all you need to know about whether people can predict the future.
I'll finish where I started. Prophecy does not work. You can go about your daily business, as I do, without paying the slightest attention to it.

Last edited on 13 Dec 2009 15:58 by bikenbeer2000 Show more

Re: Panicking again

Andy (guest) 14 Dec 2009 08:19

I feel calmer, thanks Alene.

By "evidence" I meant that on the Wikipedia page there's an interpretation of the prophecy fitting to each of the popes. Some say Nostradamus claimed it and say that even if the author is not clear then the prophecy is still accurate. It also seems to fit in with the 2012 date and the LHC. But I guess that's what doomsayers want us to conclude..

One more thing - does the Vatican take this prophecy seriousely?

Re: Panicking again

Astrogeek 14 Dec 2009 17:19

Andy;

As far as I can tell (and I haven't called the Vatican to confirm) they consider this "prophecy" to be a 16th century forgery mis-attributed to a 12th century monk.

In other words, no.

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"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 14 Dec 2009 17:58

Andy,
I agree with Astrogeek. The Vatican does not appear to take it seriously. The phrases about each pope could be contrived to fit many different people. The "glory of the olive" for example. I told you about the reasoning they used to claim it refers to the current pope. We could just as easily say that, because the olive branch signifies peace, it could refer to any person who is peaceful. I haven't analyzed each one, but I imagine they are just as open to interpretation.

The doomsayers are taking everything they can find throughout history and wedging it into their 2012 BS. Nostradamus didn't predict anything about the popes or about 2012. If he had mentioned St. Malachy, that would hardly be a prediction since Malachy predated old Nosty by 500 years.

Re: Panicking again

Astrogeek 14 Dec 2009 18:28

Here's the list: http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

Some of the "interpretations" are laughable. For example, Pope John XXIII (1958-1963) was labeled Pastor et Nauta
(pastor and marine) by "Malachy". The rationale is that he was the patriarch of Venice! I suppose it could also fit if he was a sailor, or just liked sailing, or once sailed on a sailboat.

The first manuscript (by Chacon) only listed the popes up to #230, Urban VII, who was only Pope during September of 1590. The 1595 publication appears to be when the other popes were added.

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"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind

Re: Panicking again

winters (guest) 12 Dec 2009 14:52

I must tell you we are at war right now this day so it did not start in 2012. DONT believe everything you read why does everything has to be so harsh and bad. Thsi prophocies are story that all they are story of terror…Tell me this have you ever read any of this prophocies they are all bad why not good huh because it all bull crap just to my ppl believe thing and make them go crazy thats all…..DO NOT WORRY ABOUT anything now live your days like they are if something would happen it not like you and I could stop it so just relax please stop thinking about this.

Have your self a great Holiday my friend…

Re: Panicking again

winters (guest) 12 Dec 2009 14:55

i foregot this all this nonsence you read they say this stuff to make you think its all coincidence but how it is though you mind is playing game that all……Dont mind my spelling ait not my strong poin as i am french canadian ;o)

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 15:09

I must say that I am scared about the pope thing, I dont belive that some one could see 5000 years in the future but, when was this list writen?

This and timewave zero is only things that have scared me but now I know that timewave zero is'nt anything to care about, but this :S Please debunk!!

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

Andy (guest) 13 Dec 2009 16:14

Supposedly in 1139 (applied to popes after 1143), but some claim it was written only in 1590 because there was no record of it prior to that year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Yeah, it scared me too.

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 19:20

Is'nt there any one that could explain to me why the popes would have something to do with 2012 end of the world? I think it might be some great missunderstanding like the mayan calendar.

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

bikenbeer2000 13 Dec 2009 19:39

There is no connection between the popes and 2012 except in the minds of the doomsday brigade who will latch on to anything to try and dredge up some prediction of disaster. The suggestion that next pope will be the last and his papacy will conclude with the destruction of Rome is meat and drink to them.
As I've pointed out above, it's pointless to give this sort of thing any more than a moment's consideration. It's the usual doomsday nonsense and hasn't a hope of taking place.

Last edited on 13 Dec 2009 19:40 by bikenbeer2000 Show more

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 20:54

AleneY, I am spooked by this, but the whole pope thing is just a hoax as well?

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 13 Dec 2009 21:19

It seems to have been written much later and then attributed to Saint Malachy. The earlier version didn't even go up to Peter the Roman, as the newest version did. So, it is likely a hoax, as far as being written by St. Malachy and having any prophetic validity or any connection to the end of the world.

The 2012 hoaxers didn't invent this so-called prophecy. It is just convenient for them to add it to the list of claims for 2012. As Bikenbeer said, keep prophecies very general and obscure. Then they can always have some event attributed to them after the fact.

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 21:24

Okay thanks, so it's like with the hopis? That the so called predictions have been modded?

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 13 Dec 2009 21:51

That's how it appears, from what I can find on it.

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 21:41

''Some people think it's a hoax but apparently there's evidence for it to be real.'' Nah I think thats more fake eviedence then. :) Or esle it would be all over the media.

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 13 Dec 2009 21:53

Yes, if they had anything showing it to be real, they would be making a media circus of it.

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 21:55

Ok, but is this something that we sould care about? I must say that this is one of the most spookiest things i've read for a long long time, I mean that thing Andy said, that there is evidence for it, is there? I dont think so but I can't get this of my mind..

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 13 Dec 2009 22:16

Hi Simon,
I have found nothing indicating that there is any evidence for it. Anyway, the original written one didn't even have Peter the Roman or the destruction of Rome.

Re: Panicking again

SimonEriksson 13 Dec 2009 22:20

Thank you!! I feel so good now!! I did'nt read the whole wikipedia page but I'm sure that there is nothing there that could prove a doomsday. :)

And one more thing, how's heaven like? You are a god damn angel!! :D

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 14 Dec 2009 02:47

Hi Simon. I am so glad I was able to help you. Thanks for your great compliment.

Re: Panicking again

Andy (guest) 20 Dec 2009 17:35

Sorry to annoy you, but I'm still scared. I've read this article -
http://www.cogwriter.com/when-will-the-great-tribulation-begin.htm

and again I had a feeling that everything fits in for the end of the world to come soon. Maybe the prophecy of saint Malachy is a forgery, but it still had many accurate prediction like John Paul's - it's very rare for someone to be born and die at a solar eclipse. Plus, Iran is getting very close to getting nuclear power, and I can't imagine anything good coming out of it. It's like these are all signs for the end to happen soon. I don't want to be scared, but it's all very convincing.

Please address this.

Re: Panicking again

Alene Y 20 Dec 2009 18:42

Hi Andy,
I haven't had the chance to view your link yet, but I will check it out later today.
As for "the signs of the end", these have been happening throughout history. We were in far more danger during the Cuban missile crisis. The USSR had the capability to strike us directly. Iran is nowhere near that kind of capability. I see no more signs of the end than in the past few thousand years. I have to go do my Christmas shopping. I'll be back later and check out the link. My best suggestion to you would be to stop going to doomsday sites. They all have something to sell you and the way they do that is by scaring you.

Re: Panicking again

Andy (guest) 20 Dec 2009 20:04

A few days ago it was discovered that Iran was working on the trigger of a nuclear bomb. The US attacked Iraq for suspecting it was developing nuclear weapons, and now that we know for sure that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, president Obama wants to use "diplomacy"! Does anyone really believe diplomacy will work with those people? They have said on many occasions that they want to destroy Israel, so I don't think that letting a country that supports terrorism hold weapons for mass destruction is such a good idea. Iran already has enough missiles to attack Israel, so if they achieve nuclear weapons, Israel will be constantly threatened to be bombed by atom bombs. If that happens, the entire middle east will be in complete chaos, and Iran would be able to begin a reign of terror. Maybe it's the worst case scenario, but it's a real possibility and we can't ignore it.

I've said before that I don't believe in god, but it doesn't stop me from being afraid of Armageddon. Those tensions with Iran is really similiar to the supposed signs before the end, as far as I know. The geographical area fits that too. If we include the prophecy (or forgery) of Malachy then it's a bit scary, because all of those things imply that the end will come soon, because our pope is not going to live much longer.

It's so awful living like this, and always being afraid of wars, prophecies and particles accelerators. I always need reassurance.

Re: Panicking again

Michael C. Emmert (guest) 21 Dec 2009 02:01

The post I am replying to puts forth a political agenda. But, what the hell, nuclear war is more frightening than some galactic plane alignment with certain stones in Central America.

But I have great confidence in the International Atomic Energy Agency. The United States Army went into Iraq and confirmed, without a shadow of a doubt, that arms control destroys nuclear weapons.

You mention Iran, but they do in fact need nuclear power, just like everybody else. I fret that they are using the small amount of work needed to be in total compliance as a political football to force the other rogue nuclear state, Israel, into joining the NPT. I think the only way they can force the other rogue state into compliance is to demonstrate total compliance themselves.

The other rogue state has openly bragged on the internet about their posession of Americium 242m, a nuclear superexplosive with six times the neutron cross section of Plutonium 239. They claim to be using it as rocket fuel, but I would dismiss that with the phrase, "combustion chamber erosion".

If you read my remarks in "Nemesis" you will see that I would want this rocket (assuming it works) exploring the Kuiper belt. I would have an intense interest in such a mission. So, let's see the rocket.

In fact, let's just simplify that and have the other rogue state sign the NPT and let professional inspectors look at all this.

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