Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

Summary:

This is one of the theories I've heard of, and cause some commotion around me

Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

Dawid (guest) 09 Jan 2010 21:31

ALRIGHT. SO: this is the general theory: the solar maximum coming up soon, and the earth's magnetic field weakening, is there a chance that a solar flare could cause a magnetic reversal of the poles?

And here is something more fun: What would happen IF (I know it won't) the magnetic poles would suddenly shift, like over night?

The first question is the one that troubles me the most, because I have no proper education about either physics, or astronomy, so I am in the pit of mercy-from-others.

Could someone please answer this? :-/

(edited by 2012hoax to remove extra whitespace)

Last edited on 09 Jan 2010 21:40 by 2012hoax Show more

Re: Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

2012hoax 09 Jan 2010 21:53

Yes, that is the "theory" by several (e.g., Patrick Geryl). Their imagined chain of events goes:

1) The sun undergoes a pole reversal
2) during this pole reversal it unleashes a massive solar flare (actually, a CME)
3) This CME surrounds the earth
4) The magnetism of the CME, coupled with the Earth's weakening magnetic field, combine to shift the magnetic poles of the earth.
5) this pushes the core of the earth over 180 degrees.
6) The earth's crust is then rotating in a different direction than the core, and massive destruction results.

We discuss why this is bogus on the Magnetic Pole Shift page and in particular on the Patrick Geryl page.

To answer the second part of your question: There would be massive disruption in electrical and electronic systems. Physically nothing would happen, and if you were an aboriginal native of africa or south america, you would never even notice it. It would, however, be devastating for the electrical grids worldwide, and we would probably lose a lot of satellites, fried due to induced currents.

Re: Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

SimonEriksson 09 Jan 2010 21:38

Yes the solar maximum is ahead but not for until 2013/2014. The magnet field is not getting weaker.
If you are talking about some magnetic pole shift then check out the pages about them here. Even if the magnetic field where shifting duering the solar maximum nothing would happen.

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2012 - The year of the jackpot.

Jack (guest) 21 May 2011 19:06

What would happen if the inner core actually did flip? I know that you say the sun can't do it, but let's suppose that the inner core flips in one day regardless of the sun. Would Patrick Geryl's ideas about the major catastrophes actually happen?

obaeyens 21 May 2011 19:09

What mechanism would do such a thing? Have you any idea how much energy must be used to flip the core.

bikenbeer2000 21 May 2011 20:05

let's suppose that the inner core flips in one day regardless of the sun.

It's not physically possible, so pondering the effects of it is rather pointless.
You might as well discuss the effects on the Earth of being struck by a giant space blancmange from Alpha Centauri.

Tomy2011 21 May 2011 20:08

but let's suppose that the inner core flips in one day regardless of the sun.

This is not possible.

JamesJJlm 22 May 2011 14:53

I am going to answer this because you are talking hypothetically. Basically the energy released from flipping the core would melt the planet inside-out. But we will ignore that. The inner core only accounts for a small percentage of the entire mass of the Earth. If it were spinning the opposite direction, I would think eventually the mass of the mantle would overcome it and fix it. It would probably make our days much longer, and the spin of the Earth much slower. If this happened every 11,000 years through out Earth's history, we probably wouldn't even be spinning right now.

Please remember that the Earth's magnetic field is created from currents in the liquid outer core. The currents are created by the spin of the Earth. He chooses to ignore this.

Re: Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

Jacksunfive 27 May 2011 01:26

This will probably be my dumbest question, but hopefully also my last.

I keep reading the amount of energy needed to flip the core would be equal to energy needed to stop it's rotation. Why would the core need to stop rotating in order to flip? I'm being totally hypothetical here, but couldn't the core rotate as it's flipping by changing the angle of rotation? Couldn't it shift from a horizontal rotation to a vertical rotation and then to a horizontal rotation going the other way. I'm sure I sound like an idiot, but I obviously don't understand these things.

Re: Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

bikenbeer2000 27 May 2011 03:40

You need to look at the laws governing gyroscopes.

Imagine you have your hands straight out in front of you and you're holding a bicycle wheel. Imagine the wheel is rotating with the nearest edge moving downwards. How do you make it spin at the same speed in the opposite direction? One way is to just turn it round. The other is not to turn it but to stop it and spin it the other way.

You now have a wheel with the nearest edge spinning upwards. How much energy did it take to get from the initial state to the final state? According to the laws of physics, the energy required depends only on the initial and final states and not on how the change was achieved. If that weren't true, you could manufacture energy out of nothing by alternately changing the way you reverse the spin.

So, although it doesn't seem that way to many people, the energy required to flip over a spinning object is the same as that required to stop it dead and spin it at the same speed in the opposite direction.

If you get a chance, try playing about with a bicycle wheel or some other spinning object. You'll be surprised how much effort is required to turn it when it's spinning compared with when it's not.

Re: Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

Jacksunfive 27 May 2011 15:10

Well, my main confusion was the wheel reference. Maybe this is stupid, but wouldn't a sphere be a better example? Since the core is more like a sphere than a wheel. I was thinking that a sphere or ball would be easier to flip while it's rotating by shifting the angle of rotation. But you're saying that even if the angle of rotation shifted enough to flip the core it would still have required the same amount of energy to stop the rotation and make it start rotating the other way?

Re: Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

bikenbeer2000 27 May 2011 16:04

It doesn't matter what shape it is. Any spinning object requires just as much energy to flip 180° as it does to stop and begin rotating in the other direction. It takes half as much energy to shift it 90° and even a small angular shift would (in the case of the Earth's core) still take a lot of energy.

Spinning objects like to stay spinning about the same axis. That's why you don't fall off your bike.

Re: Magnetic shift due to a solar flare

JamesJJlm 27 May 2011 16:06

Anything that spins has a momentum that was given to it by a force. People can spin a basketball on their finger, the energy is transfered from their arms and hands to put a spin on the ball. Once the ball is on their finger, it doesn't topple until the friction from their finger slows down the spin. So this ball somehow is able to balance itself while it is spinning, but what would happen if it wasn't spinning and you tried to balance it on your finger? (It would fall) Angular momentum, keeps it balanced because the energy given to it was for one direction. It would require more energy to change that direction, no matter how you do it.

If there was no friction (like in space) the basketball would just keep spinning until there was an equal and opposite force to overcome it's angular momentum.

If the ball is spinning on someone's finger, and they wanted it to suddenly spin the other way, they would have to apply quite a bit of force. It would probably sting a bit, because of the transfer of energy. It would take the same amount of energy to turn it upside down, because the results would be the same.

It took me awhile to learn this. Just remember that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. You can only transfer it. The energy you give something makes it go a certain direction, so that object will fight and resist any change to that initial direction. The only way you can change it, is if you provide the energy it requires.