2012 doomsday is a hoax which i beilive but is anything going to change, for example great disasters and stuff like lthat and i've also heard that this has happened before and after this happens again things will be different its like a new beginning that the question is how many people are going to survive because of 2012
I don't see much of a possibility of any significant change in 2012, simply because it is 2012.
There are always possibilities of some level of change, either on a personal level, family level, local level, etc., all the way up to global change. However, I don't think the chances of large scale significant change are any different in 2012 than in any other year.
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
But since not much is known about the Mayan interpretation of this date, how you can you be sure monument 6 is not about the apocalypse? From what I managed to see, even the experts on this subject are not sure what is going to happen to the calender on December 2012. Lately I started fearing this date again, after reading the following paragraph on Wikipedia -
"According to the Popol Vuh, a book compiling details of creation accounts known to the K'iche' Maya of the Colonial-era highlands, we are living in the fourth world. The Popol Vuh describes the first three creations that the gods failed in making and the creation of the successful fourth world where men were placed. In the Maya Long Count, the previous creation ended at the start of a 14th b'ak'tun.
The previous creation ended on a long count of 12.19.19.17.19. Another 12.19.19.17.19 will occur on December 20, 2012, followed by the start of the fourteenth b'ak'tun, 13.0.0.0.0, on December 21, 2012."
You mentioned it in your "Why 2012?" page, but how can you say the ending of a cycle means nothing special, when the ending of the previous one meant the death of the creation?
But since not much is known about the Mayan interpretation of this date,
If that is true, then any claims thereto are meaningless before they're even made, including those of doomsayers.
how you can you be sure monument 6 is not about the apocalypse?
Do you agree that the burden of proof is on the positive claimant? If so, and you truly think that "not much is known about the Mayan interpretation," then why does it matter? Even if that isn't true, and we know for a fact that the Maya predicted a doomsday (which isn't the case; there's no evidence suggesting this), do you have any reason whatsoever to believe in the Mayan religion? What about all the other religions that have declared their own versions of doomsday?
From what I managed to see, even the experts on this subject are not sure what is going to happen to the calender on December 2012.
If that is true, why does it matter what doomsayers claim about it?
Lately I started fearing this date again,
Why?
You mentioned it in your "Why 2012?" page, but how can you say the ending of a cycle means nothing special, when the ending of the previous one meant the death of the creation?
Would you mind referring back to the text you quoted and pointing out exactly where you think it says the end of the thirteenth b'ak'tun means "the death of the creation?" I don't see anything to that effect in your reference, and you didn't cite anything. But again, even if we assume that is the case, why does it matter? Are you a follower of this particular Mayan religious belief? What about all the other Maya who believed something else? What about, as I mentioned above, all the other hundreds if not thousands of belief systems that have centered on various so-called "prophecies" and doomsday claims, none of which have come true?
But since not much is known about the Mayan interpretation of this date, how you can you be sure monument 6 is not about the apocalypse?
Well, for one thing, it does not mention anything about an apocalypse. Second, the site (Tortuguero) was not a major urban center, but rather an outlying settlement. The simple lack of inscriptions referencing that date pretty much signifies that it was not an important one in the minds of the Maya.
From what I managed to see, even the experts on this subject are not sure what is going to happen to the calender on December 2012.
Apparently we are reading different 'experts'. I tend to favor views by those who have studied the Maya and their culture, such as Dr. Johan Normark (archaeologist), Dr. John Hoopes (anthropologist), Dr. Mark Van Stone (epigrapher), Dr. David Stuart (epigrapher) and Dr. Stephen Houston (epigrapher). These experts are of the unanimous opinion that the so-called 'end date' refers to the end of a cycle on the calendar, roughly equivalent in importance to them as a millenium is to ours.
Which experts are you referring to?
"According to the Popol Vuh, a book compiling details of creation accounts known to the K'iche' Maya of the Colonial-era highlands, we are living in the fourth world. The Popol Vuh describes the first three creations that the gods failed in making and the creation of the successful fourth world where men were placed. In the Maya Long Count, the previous creation ended at the start of a 14th b'ak'tun.
This passage illustrates one of the pet peeves of Johan Normark. It is probably a pet peeve of various archaeologists besides him, but I've exchanged emails with Johan, and he is very clear on this topic.
Focus on the phrase "Colonial-era". What that means is post-colonization by the Spanish, or roughly after 1500 AD. Compare this to the date of the 'collapse' of the Mayan civilization, which took place over a period of several decades after 900 AD. So, we are talking about a difference of 600 years between the collapse of the 'classical' Mayan culture to the beginning of the Spanish colonization.
During that 600 years the Maya lived within the subsequent cultures, and were influenced by them. The Popul Vuh is a compilation of the views of the Maya who had lived for many generations within the Aztec culture.
How much of the views expressed in the Popul Vuh were Aztec in origin? As it turns out, quite a bit. The archaeologists prefer to base their views on what ancient cultures believed on what those ancient cultures actually produced and left, and not on an oral history with 600 years of possible contamination from subsequent cultures.
One last point… Tortuguero is many miles away from the highlands of Guatemala where the K'iche' were located. It is likely that Tortuguero was associated with the larger and more influential Palenque urban center, rather than by the K'iche' Maya.
You mentioned it in your "Why 2012?" page, but how can you say the ending of a cycle means nothing special, when the ending of the previous one meant the death of the creation?
Because there is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that the Maya of the time (about 600 AD) thought that 2012 would be an apocalypse. The whole 'cycles of creation' thing is not maya, but Aztec!
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
Thank you for answering. Basically you are saying the whole fourth world myth began many years after the destruction of the Mayan civilization?
If the Mayan people didn't think the end of the previous cycle meant the end of the creation, how come it is written in Wikipedia? It is usually a credible source of information.
The Maya are still here today. Wikipedia well it a good source but the sad part anyone or everyone can edit so many thing on Wikipedia can or maybe fauls so i would not take it siriusly 100% of the time.
Well, the wikipedia article is technically correct. The error comes from the common interpretation by laypersons that the Popul Vuh reflects what "The Maya" believed.
I illustrated one point (that the Popul Vuh was written 600 years after the collapse of the classic Mayan civilization). Also, the Tortuguero monument is probably even earlier, from around 650 AD. Another point is the common view that "The Maya" was a singular civilization. It definitely was not.
Tortuguero was an outlying small city (perhaps "town" would be a better word) that is thought to be associated with the major urban center at Palenque. Both of these are in Southern Mexico, and I believe that they were part of the Yucatec Maya group.
The K'iche' Maya lived hundreds of miles away, in the highlands of Guatemala. These two groups didn't even speak the same language.
My point is that even though the facts in the Wikipedia article are correct, they require careful examination before you can draw any conclusions from them.
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind