I saw this through a link on the forum and maybe someone can give me some infro on Anthony Aveni and this book 2012 Maya Mystery The End Time.
Anthony Aveni is a Mayanist (which means an actual scholar of the Maya) and an archeo-astronomer (meaning that he studies what ancient cultures wrote about the skies, what they could see, etc).
I've heard good things about his book. I have not read it.
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
So this is one of the few guys that is trying to help make sense out of this 2012 phenominon and maybe debunk it a little bit.
Hello Mike,
I read Aveni's The End of Time: The Maya Mystery of 2012 back in December (of 2009). Not long afterward, I loaned it to some friends, who returned it to me just last week.
I've been looking through it again, and I see that I'd forgotten just how useful it is for people who want to rein-in the 2012 hysteria. It's just as helpful for understanding the 2012 faithful as it is for understanding the ancient Maya. Its Amazon reviews are on target.
"I was glad to be able to answer him promptly and with confidence. Without hesitation, I told him I didn't know." Mark Twain
It's been excellent so far, I just wish it was longer. He talks a little geomagnetic reversals but not physical rotational shifts proposed like Graham Hancock, Patrick Geryl, or Greg Braden. I also find it neat that he started as a astronomer and not an archeologist.
I really recommend this book for those interested.
From the reviews i've read and what you guys on here are saying about it it sounds like a good read.
Want to give a brief summary of his views? With out spoiling the book, since it would be nice if people bought it.
With an open-minded view, people could mistake you all of saying that Anthony Aveni has found evidence of the (fake) Maya Predictions via legitimate astronomy. Cover your bases and all, you know?
As far as I can tell, it seems the book is bent on showing people the bumpkis of the 2012 claims involving the Maya. But… eh. It's hard to say from just the cover, you know? I thought, initially, it was another bogus doomsday hoax.
So, yeah. My suggestion is a brief synopsis of what Anthony Aveni is trying to tell people?
Hi Moo,
Jason's answer to you pretty well covers what you asked about, but your posts ask good questions, and make good observations that I'd like to go into for visitors.
It's hard to say from just the cover, you know? I thought, initially, it was another bogus doomsday hoax.
Other people have said the same thing. The cover is really unfortunate, and the title even more so. If I hadn't already known who Aveni is, I probably wouldn't even have looked at this book.
[P]eople could mistake you all as saying that Anthony Aveni has found evidence of the (fake) Maya Predictions via legitimate astronomy.
They might well get that impression; if so, that would be unfortunate. Aveni is, plainly and simply, a very good writer with a friendly, accessible style. (Jason might want to comment on this.) He gives good background material on what we do and don't know about the Maya culture, and the astronomical observations they made, or might have. Which is more or less what Jason already said.
I think that instead of saying that Aveni's found evidence of fake predictions via legitimate astronomy, I'd say he demonstrates how those predictions extrapolate wildly beyond what can be reasonably inferred from what we know about the Maya, and sometimes fly in the face of it. You can see some of this in the introduction to our page on the Mayan Calendar, and in footnotes that quote him in our pages on the Solstice Alignment and the Dark Rift.
Even more importantly, Aveni gives a sympathetic explanation of what people find appealing in the Maya variant of 2012 woo. That explanation in itself is good reason for regulars here to buy the book.
I should honestly just buy the book, but my major issue is my lack of interest in both the Maya and Astronomy.
I can certainly sympathize; I live in a city whose major economic activity is Maya Woo, and I sometimes get burned out listening to tourists tell me how the ancient Maya have the answers to the modern world's problems. The ancient Maya definitely had some things figured out, but I mean, really.
I just want to know if these insane "Godlike Astronomical Knowledge" claims have any merit.
No. In fact, they're contradictory. John Major Jenkins' claims are a good example. On the one hand, he claims godlike powers for the Maya. On the other, he acknowledges that they were off by about a dozen years on the timing of the Galactic Alignment. (See this Amazon review of his book The 2012 Story, and the comments on that review.)
One thing I'll add to JuJu's comment that
The Maya couldn't even get a handle on leap year, so I really doubt they had any means of even conceptualizing the galactic center.
According to Aveni,(see intro here), the Maya didn't see the need for a leap year, so this inaccuracy in their calendar didn't bother them. As Aveni says, "They were different from us."
I first learned of Aveni through his book Skywatchers. It's great, but sometimes very heavy going. Fortunately, you can view the Google version on line, for a limited number of times:
A brief review of Skywatchers is is given here, where you can also view parts of it.
"I was glad to be able to answer him promptly and with confidence. Without hesitation, I told him I didn't know." Mark Twain
Well to simplify it, he explains what the Maya actually knew about astronomical calculations according to the evidence we have today. He explains a good bit of astronomy terms such as precession, tropical years and sidereal years, retrograde loops,etc. He also explains the calenders ie. the tzolkin and haab. While much in the beginning seems to be an educational tidbit on the Maya, he goes into explaining the issues with many of the theories such as the ones of Lawrence Joesph and John Major Jenkins.
Awesome, thanks for clearing that up. Now we won't have people freaking out over this.
I am impressed with how much the Maya apparently knew about astronomy. But I do question how much they really know, and what all is overblown. For people to say they were far more advanced than we were is where I firmly draw the line.
Knowing about the other planets is not exactly a stretch. But the Galactic Center is what I muse. Does he mention about the Maya actually knowing about our lovely black-hole in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy? I always found that extremely hard to believe. Considering, IIRC, we only 'recently' discovered it.
I generally like how many Maya pieces of art and 'story' have apparent connections toward the Galactic Center, which is where a LOT of the Maya Doomsday Prophecies come from. If Anthony Aveni has any information on if they truly were able to know about the Galactic Center, mind mentioning it? That's the ONE thing I really want to know about the extent of Maya astronomy.
In my opinion, I find it bogus, and all the Maya 'evidence' about it is not even remotely trying to show that they knew we had a super massive black hole there. But, if they really did… well, crap. Just how much DID they know about our galaxy?
I should honestly just buy the book, but my major issue is my lack of interest in both the Maya and Astronomy. I just want to know if these insane "Godlike Astronomical Knowledge" claims have any merit.
I should honestly just buy the book, but my major issue is my lack of interest in both the Maya and Astronomy. I just want to know if these insane "Godlike Astronomical Knowledge" claims have any merit.
in a word, "no".
"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind
The Maya couldn't even get a handle on leap year, so I really doubt they had any means of even conceptualizing the galactic center.
So where's it all come from? I know one of their pyramids has a neat illusion that goes with the spring solstice. I mean, I can find it very reasonable they knew about the solstices, but yeah.
Just where is this godly knowledge from? The Dresden Codex? But if I remember, that was re-created after a lot of it was damaged in a fire. I wonder if someone didn't make them out to be more than they were…
But eh, conspiracy theories there. Good to know a lot of it is bogus.
Good analysis Jim. I think you're right on with Aveni. He keeps the material simple for novices yet it's in-depth enough in his problems with the theories of the 2012ers.
Moo, it's well worth the money in my opinion. I'm looking at getting sky watchers as well.