Why Should We Trust This Site?

Summary:

How do we know you aren't covering up something

Why Should We Trust This Site?

Adam (guest) 18 Sep 2010 13:53

I've been sucked into the 2012 hysteria for some time now. I have days where I can't function properly because of my fear. I found this site and I've seen David Morrison for NASA reference it a lot. My question is, how do we know that you know what you're talking about? How do we know that NASA isn't covering it up and that yall are helping? I mean, the pole shifts,a planet, the Maya calendar….That is scientific stuff. I want to believe everything I read on here…But I'm having a lot of trouble doing so. I literally feel like we are on a countdown until everything is gone. How can yall or NASA or anybody say 100% that 12/21/2012 is just going to come and go? If reversals aren't predictable, how do they know it won't happen? Please explain

Mike Poulin (guest) 18 Sep 2010 14:13

Alright while i'm sure Astrogeek or someone else can explain better why this site should be trusted. Let me make a couple points about some of the claims that are widespread throughout the media.

1. Nibiru. If a planet the 4 times the size of earth like the proponents claimed existed and was supposed to hit us in 2012 how come no Astronomer/Amature Astronomer/NASA person has seen it yet it wouldn't be able to hide if it's that big.

2. Pole Shifts. Yes Pole Shifts happen but they don't happen all in a matter of days but in many thousands of years.

3. Mayan Calendar. Mayan Calendar no more fortells the end for 12/21/12 then our Gregorian Did for 12/31/99 that's just modern interpertation of the calendar by people who have no idea and are only out to either scare people or make money or maybe both at the same time.

Could something happen in 2012 yes it could but it's more then likely not going to bring an end to the earth and when Christmas 2012 rolls around and all the doomayers who were so sure of themselves are locked away bunkers we will all be having a good hardy laugh at the failed prophecies of 2012.

Mike Poulin (guest) 18 Sep 2010 14:27

Adam
Also what the 2012 proponents want you to believe weather it be Nibiru or whatever most if not all of that stuff is ridiculous and they don't present any evidence. As a matter of fact as far as Nibiru goes Zachria Sitchin doesn't even claim originally that it was coming in 2012 but in 2090.

Moo (guest) 18 Sep 2010 18:08

Mike touched up on everything nicely, and I will also add this final note.

4) How are you convinced something WILL happen in 2012 by the word of someone with no education?

In fact, let me show you how silly this whole thing is.

I have no astronomy training, but I say the Sun will go Supernova not 5 million years from now, but 5 hours from now. ALL astronomers in the world will now call me insane, but I will use numerology to prove I am right.

1 + 1 = 2. That's my proof.

You have five hours to live.

And that is EXACTLY how 2012 works. It's SO stupid.

Re: Why Should We Trust This Site?

Alene Y 18 Sep 2010 18:46

Hi Adam,
You can believe us or not. That is your choice. We are here to help those who want to know the truth about 2012. Why should you belive us? How about the fact that we give scientific explanations of why the absurd claims of the doomsayers fall one of into four groups: 1) Can't happen, 2) Can't happen by 2012, 3) Don't harm us, or 4) There is no reason to think they will happen in 2012 as opposed to 90,000 years from now.
We have never said that it is 100% assured that nothing will happen in 2012. No one can ever say that about any year. What we CAN and DO say is that there is no evidence that anything out of the ordinary will happen in 2012. It is just another year. All the hoopla has been invented by the doomsayers for profit.
As for the silly suggestion that we might be working for NASA to spread disinformation, we are all individuals from various locations and countries. I seriously doubt that people from England, Australia, and Canada would be under the control of the US government. We are not working for any government, but donating our time (and in Astrogeek's case, his money to maintain the site) to help people who are being frightened by this hoax. Our reward is when we hear from people who have been helped.

<the pole shifts,a planet, the Maya calendar….That is scientific stuff>

No, that is completely unscientific drivel. The Mayan calendar is just a calendar, a count of days. It predicts nothing and it isn't ending, but merely ending this cycle and moving on to the next. The Maya didn't predict the end of the world and they only mentioned 2012 once, in a building dedication.
A rotational pole shift has never happened and can't happen. A magnetic pole reversal take thousands of years to complete, and has no effect on us. A magic invisible planet? Come on, do I really need to explain how ludicrous that is? The doomsayers' claims are nonsense and only those who lack a basic understanding of science believe them. They want your money.

Moo (guest) 18 Sep 2010 20:15

To be fair, there is evidence to suggest slightly faster pole shifts, but that's on the fierce debate table. There is evidence that poles have had accelerations or fast movement, but this is argued to simply go from "Well it's moving really fast one year, then goes at a snails pace the next".

The theory that it takes a few hundred to thousand years hasn't changed, however. It's on debate if it's multiple thousand, or multiple hundred. Either way? We wouldn't notice it happening. That's the fact.

But yeah, the one citing of 2012 is the Maya, but their citing is not an end of the world scenario by the (admittedly damaged) translation of it. And the Modern Day Maya are only planning a New Years esque celebration for it and nothing more.

As they've been quoted before, they're sick of this doomsday/awakening/etc crap. The SAME people that supposedly could foretell the end of the world are, at this time, sick and tired of their people are being made so wrongly infamous.

So believe whom you want. I still have to tip my hat to the 6,000,000 people who are just sick of this abuse.

Re: Why Should We Trust This Site?

Astrogeek 19 Sep 2010 04:44

Hi Adam;

I see that you have received some very good responses so far.

I'd like to address one question you posed head-on, which is "how do we know that you know what you're talking about?"

I advocate a healthy dose of skepticism every time you read or listen to something. There's a really good set of articles we've linked to under Detecting BS, which have some excellent advice. In this particular case, I'd suggest the Scott Berkun article which says:

The first rule of BS is to expect it. Fire detectors are designed to expect a fire at any moment: they’re not optimists. They fixate on the possibility of fires and that’s why they save lives. If you want to detect BS you have to swallow some cynicism, and add some internal doubt to everything you hear.

Do not accept what we say. Check it out. But do the same for the claims by the people who are trying to get you to buy into their point of view.

For example, ask yourself this: Has Geryl proved his case? Has he provided a credible mechanism by which his core flip scenario could work? Do his conclusions regarding the Dresden Codex match up with what others say about it? Etc., etc. Then read our criticism of Geryl and see if his claims survive scrutiny.

Remember that as the person making the positive claim, he has to prove his case beyond any doubt. That's how science works. He has to address the criticisms or modify his theory to account for them. Has he done so?

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"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind

Re: Why Should We Trust This Site?

CaneLaz 19 Sep 2010 04:51

Very true Astro. Adam, this is a review of Geryl's book by a guy named Geoff Stray. He has compiled a complete 2012 database.

Read through the entire thing. You'll see that Geryl refuses to respond to Strays questions on his theory.

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/orp.htm

Adam (guest) 18 Sep 2010 22:25

So, none of the events supposed to happen have any grounds? My anxiety is a ta new high today. I'm actually throwing up…Please help.

UndeadxNurse 18 Sep 2010 22:32

Considering that most of the claims are impossible due to the laws of physics, I'm confident in saying that next to none have any grounds in reality.

Have you stopped to ask yourself, why you should trust the other sites?
Surely, if you're going to question a site that presents facts, then you must have questioned the sites that presents more bullshit than a political debate.

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Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.

TheGreatJuju 18 Sep 2010 23:14

So, none of the events supposed to happen have any grounds?

It doesn't even get that far. None of the events proposed by doomsayers are supposed to happen at all. It's just a bunch of made up stories, based on imagination and shoddy bastardizations of science.

My anxiety is a ta new high today.

Why? What specific claims are causing you such problems? In what way have the rebuttals to these claims on this site failed to convince you?

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"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

Alene Y 18 Sep 2010 23:32

Hi again Adam,
That is correct. None of the supposed events for 2012 are based on any evidence, scientific or otherwise. The doomsayers needed a new date after their 2003 doomsday failed to happen. They latched onto the 2012 date because it was convenient. It didn't matter that the Mayan calendar is not actually ending. Just the suggestion of it was enough for them to adopt 2012 as their new doomsday and keep the money rolling in.

To Moo: I realize that the times given for geomagnetic reversals vary from hundreds to thousands of years, but from the perspective of a human lifetime, no one would ever see any effects. The upshot of it is that it takes many generations for a reversal to occur and people would not be affected by it.

Adam (guest) 18 Sep 2010 22:53

Why are people so intent on predicting the death of so many? I mean, do Geryl and Sitchen and Leider and those people think they'll make it? I'm so scared. I just don't think there's any help for me…..

UndeadxNurse 18 Sep 2010 23:10

It's a little bit of everything, to be quite honest, Adam.

Some people are doing this strictly for money, some are, in one way or, another, getting money out of this hoax, some actually believe what they're saying, some just want attention.

Think of it this way, a guy steps onto a roof and threatens to jump, in return, he receives attention, which is what he's seeking, once he gets attention, he's happy, but being happy isn't enough, it's similar to MS (Münchausen Syndrome).

Three blocks away, however, another guy steps onto a roof and threatens to jump, this guy isn't seeking attention, he's suicidal.

On the ground of both events are reporters, making both events seem worse than they really are, the juicier they make the story, the bigger pay they receive.

Understand?

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Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.

CaneLaz 18 Sep 2010 23:41

I understand how you feel Adam. It's tough to find hope when you think the world is gonna end. To clarify, Lieder predicted doomsday in 2003 as well. Sitchen I believe predicted Nibiru to return in 2085 if I'm not mistaken. Geryl has been steady with this prediction since 1997 however.

It's ok to be scared man. That's why you came here. If there is a place to be, it's here. You have astronomers, space craft engineers, mayan experts and astrophysicist contribute here. None of them claim to know it all, but they're going to be as honest as they can.

UndeadxNurse 18 Sep 2010 23:44

Nicely put, Jason.

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Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.

Adam (guest) 19 Sep 2010 00:22

I've read the page on GEryl, but if he's been constant since 1997, how credible is he?

CaneLaz 19 Sep 2010 00:24

Not very credible at all. Don't get me wrong, I came to this site because of Geryl. His predictions are terrifying, but there sure isn't much scientific backing for him.

I'm working on putting together an article about Geryl(for personal data) but I can share some links with you if you'd like? I think it would put you more at ease. I'll see if I can compile more stuff about him tonight.

Adam (guest) 19 Sep 2010 00:55

I would like to see some stuff if you could post some of the links on here. For him tol hold on to the idea for all these years, culdn't he be onto something? I meant hat's a long time to be researching something. I'm sorry to be so bothersome, but this stuff, all of the claims are scaring me beyond anything!!

Moo (guest) 19 Sep 2010 01:00

It's the same sort of resolve that "Jesus Christ will return!" that have had religious people believe in it for generations upon generations. Wasn't he suppose to return around 1010 years ago? Hrum.

Same thing, basically. Be it just pure belief, or brainwashing.

Moo (guest) 18 Sep 2010 22:55

I shall answer your question with another question.

Why do video game producers produce really bad games based on movies?

Do you need the answer?

It's the money.

People will buy into things they are either convinced can't be bad, or are brainwashed into this.

The same thing works with the 2012 nonsense. Geryl sells books and asks for donations to potentially save the world. I bet you all that money is going right to a spiffy new home after 2012 botches.

Sitchen? Probably the same noise.

Leider? Medically insane.

So… yeah. Believe the crackpots and scam artists. Or… believe the people with numerous years of research, training, and study in the fields that say They Are Freaking Nuts.

Kevin (guest) 19 Sep 2010 02:34

I think it's important to know that "Geryl has been steady with this prediction since 1997 however." After he became aware of the 2012 Maya calender junk. Had he not known about the calender, who knows which date he would have picked instead.

Kevin (guest) 19 Sep 2010 02:34

If anything at all..

EggDude (guest) 19 Sep 2010 02:35

I think he was scared of 2012 too when he first found out. And he actually believed it and slowly started his own "theory."

SmokeyShadows (guest) 19 Sep 2010 02:44

Adam, which would you believe? People making wild claims based on stories, poor interpretations, imaginations and pseudo science. OR doctors with degrees, PHds, scientists, and astronomers. Seems like an easy answer for me. You ask what if they are covering things up. I ask you, why are they covering things up?
Another question, why are the 2012 proponents telling the "truth(obviously a lie)?" What do they accomplish by telling everyone? If it's going to be as bad as they claim, no amount of preparation is going to do any good. So, why? These people don't even know what they are arguing so hard for. Because in the end, if they were right(which they are not), they won't be able to say: we told you so! Because we are all dead! However, on the other hand, after 2012 comes and goes, we can smack them in their faces and say gtfo loser.
All they want, is their 5 minute of fame.

Alene Y 19 Sep 2010 04:12

And their money. They all have something to sell, Geryl included. All that money they're collecting wouldn't be much use if the world were ending.

CaneLaz 19 Sep 2010 04:57

Correct Eggdude. He began his search after reading Maurice Cotterell and Adrian Gilbert's "Mayan Prophecies."

Even John Major Jenkins found an unbelievable amount of errors in it.

Here is his review:

http://www.alignment2012.com/mproph.htm

This is an email exchange that JMJ had with Gilbert: in it, Gilbert refers to his books as entertaining.
http://www.alignment2012.com/AdrianGilbert-email-exchange.html

Last edited on 19 Sep 2010 04:58 by CaneLaz Show more

Adam (guest) 19 Sep 2010 13:38

So, what exactly has Geryl been predicting since 1997? A rotational shift, that yall said isn't possible? If it 100% isn't possible, why is he so sure it'll happen?

CaneLaz 19 Sep 2010 15:01

He's sure because he believes people of Atlantis knew more than we know today. He believes that the Maya and Egyptians were refugees of Atlantis and used codes to warn us.

He's using Charles Hapgoods theory of crustal displacement and crustal rotation.

Here are some additional links about it:
http://www.skrause.org/writing/papers/hapgood_and_ecd.shtml

Astrogeek 20 Sep 2010 05:19

That would be mis-using Hapgood's theory.

Hapgood's ECD theory never postulated the near-instantaneous slippage that Geryl proposes, and it never postulated a 180 degree displacement. That's all Geryl.

Hapgood proposed a "sudden" (in geologic terms) displacement that would regardless be perceived as occurring over long periods of time. Hapgood's mechanism was supposed to be centrifugal imbalance caused by a build-up of ice at the poles, although he admitted in his second book that this would not provide enough lateral force to account for the proposed displacement.

It was a decent idea at the time it was proposed. It explained some phenomena, it made testable predictions, and it was based on solid data. It just turned out to be wrong.

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"Do you ever think about things you do think about?" - Henry Drummond to Matthew Harrison Brady in Inherit the Wind

CaneLaz 20 Sep 2010 14:05

Yea, I think Hapgood and Einstein both suggested it would take atleast 5000 years. I'm checking out Hapgoods book this week. I'll see how it is but from what everyone says, it reads more like a story than a science book.

UndeadxNurse 19 Sep 2010 18:34

why is he so sure it'll happen?

Why are children so sure that the Boogeyman exists?

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Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.

(account deleted) 20 Sep 2010 11:55

Hi Adam,

You asked

So, what exactly has Geryl been predicting since 1997? A rotational shift, that yall said isn't possible? If it 100% isn't possible, why is he so sure it'll happen?

I had an interesting experience about 3 years ago in which I had to help track down a schizophrenic who was absolutely sure that I was a demon. Would you have believed him?

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"I was glad to be able to answer him promptly and with confidence. Without hesitation, I told him I didn't know." Mark Twain