How can I respond to this believer?

Summary:

This believer making claims that it is real and wants proof that it doesn't exist.

How can I respond to this believer?

TheEvidence 23 Nov 2010 19:59

Here is something I received from a Youtube viewer. I don't know how to respond to it.

"The thing is I've stated facts, and showed you videos yet you dismiss them because you don't find it relevant enough as direct "evidence." I told you you the NWO is the U.N, Told you all these countries who are enemies with one another were on the council, showed you videos of past presidents and parliament leaders mentioning a globalization. Now,I think it's your turn to provide evidence of your own. Prove to me NWO doesn't exist, prove me the ex president talking about the NWO was some kind of lie, prove to me that there is no Illuminati, prove to me that 2012 is nothing more than a bunch of religious and conspiracy nuts running around making false claims.

I won't take responses like these as a real answer:

"Conspiracy theorists believe this group exists. It doesn't"
"it's dumb"
"Stupid conspiracy theorists"
"Idiots"
"believing in them are like believing in vampires"
"its a bunch of bull, Just because it's so popular doesn't make it real"

Nor will I accept name calling an adequate rebuttal. This all makes your argument that much weaker, because with no evidence to back up your claim there's really no use to read it. So with that said, and I might be contradicting myself here, but there would be no reason to continue this conversation. It would be unethical in a sense. If you feel you have to respond I wont object reading your response. The thing about it is, people made the claims, they tell you to look it up yourself on the net. Now, if you don't accept it then it's your job to prove others wrong; by showing a strong concrete argument that doesn't consist of, name calling and cussing. This gives the appearance of having a lack of knowledge, or not having anything intelligent to say."

I need some help to respond to this. I tried telling him,that this is not real, but the evidence he shows me is some youtube videos.

Last edited on 23 Nov 2010 20:02 by TheEvidence Show more

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

3WMElliott 23 Nov 2010 21:12

Prove to me NWO doesn't exist

You don't have to, s/he seemingly hasn't given sufficient evidence FOR an NWO of some sort, and therefore still holds the burden of proof for whatever claims they make.

prove me the ex president talking about the NWO was some kind of lie

I suspect this user is confusing this NWO with this one, that is to say one politician talking positively about a unified government and so on does not relate to the conspiracy theory of a unified government. I can't quite think of a good analogy for this, but it seems the user is going "oh, hey, <insert President here> said <insert most probably quote-mined quote about a NWO> which must mean that it exists." Well that's not proof of an NWO, that's proof that somebody talked about an NWO, most probably in a completely different context than this user seems to think.

The more I read my own writing there, the less it makes sense to me. Hopefully you have some clue what I'm talking about…

prove to me that there is no Illuminati

Again, you do not have to prove anything, burden of proof FOR the Illuminati still sits on their shoulders.

prove to me that 2012 is nothing more than a bunch of religious and conspiracy nuts running around making false claims.

Again, you don't have to… (you get the idea). But hey, point them to any number of sources clearly and simply debunking any claim made, not just 2012hoax but there are plenty of YouTube videos with good information to combat the obviously poor information. Just got to find it.

Now, if you don't accept it then it's your job to prove others wrong

I can't stress the point enough, it's a logical fallacy that is being used again and again (argument from ignorance if I recall, things like "if you can't prove it otherwise then it must be true, regardless of the lack of/evidence that I have")

You are - quite simply - going to get nowhere with this user, but I suspect you knew that already. You could go about and debunk every little thing, but this is a tangled mess of a conspiracy theory, so it'll be easy to shotgun some more rubbish towards you in the hope you'll not find anything to say, or give up.

The best you can do is state (again and again if necessary), that whatever evidence put forward does not stand up on its own, it's not conclusive etc, and that it's not your job to prove a negative, it's their job to prove the positive.

Hope that gets you somewhere.

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

obaeyens 23 Nov 2010 21:35

prove to me that 2012 is nothing more than a bunch of religious and conspiracy nuts running around making false claims.

That is an easy one. All he has to do is read a physics book, a bit of astronomy basics and check the numbers if it really can exist.

Also look at their backgrounds, many have a history of psychological problems or have a criminal record.

prove me the ex president talking about the NWO was some kind

Also easy, watch the complete video of the president talking, not the one the conspiracy theorists show.
Ask yourself what he means with New World Order.
Is that the same as the NWO nuts claim or does it have another meaning?

Conspiracy theorists always fail so look for other possible meanings that would indicate that their assumption is false.
How could you falsify this NWO claim in the video?

prove to me that there is no Illuminati

Illuminatie does exist! I know since that is the name of our chess club!

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

obaeyens 23 Nov 2010 21:39

Here is something I received from a Youtube viewer. I don't know how to respond to it.

I think the first thing you have to do is to determine is that person is insane or not.
Some are misguided, but other are really insane and fanatic about it.

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

ThreeFangCat 24 Nov 2010 08:08

One of the things this guy is doing to you is playing a numbers game to make his request you disprove the NWO (or whatever) seem reasonable when, in fact, it is not. The idea that you take a shot at having burden of proof sounds fair to him, but is invalid.

I'd be terribly inclined to remind him that he who makes the positive claim has the burden of proof REGARDLESS of whether they had the burden of proof on a previous subject. The burden of proof does not shift merely because one person has held it for a while. Burden of proof is not about taking turns, but who makes the positive claim.

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

TheEvidence 23 Nov 2010 20:04

I think I put this on the wrong spot on the forums?

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

snorks 23 Nov 2010 20:28

It is difficult to prove generalities. You could start with what is his definition of the NWO or theory of 2012. Then ask for a specific source such as he heard that the pole shift will happen because so and so told him. Debunk that theory or source. Or if the Fed is a part of his NWO, tell him to read up on "Money and Banking" in an economics text book. I find that a lot of folks are ignorant of a lot things and conflate everything into a whole.

Be aware that you will not change anything but at least you may be heard by some on-lookers.

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

mike1986 23 Nov 2010 21:12

Which president said something about this supposed NWO. Also how does a Pole Shift relate to the NWO.

Last edited on 23 Nov 2010 21:17 by mike1986 Show more

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

TheEvidence 24 Nov 2010 00:11

Thank you everyone for the posts.

Re: How can I respond to this believer?

Alene Y 24 Nov 2010 00:21

President George H.W. Bush mentioned a new world order in a speech during his presidency. He wasn't referring to the conspiracy nuts' ideas about some shady international group running the world. It was just a phrase he used to make it sound like he was going to improve things.