Posted on Kyle's site….
…we don’t stand a chance of pulling through whatever’s coming alive.
You erroneously assume that something unusually horrible is "coming" at all. There is always something in the future, but there's no reason to think there will be anything exceptional about 2012.
I never meant to personally assault or take anyone from there down more…
I doubt anyone at 2012Hoax feels "taken down" by you. No offense, but your arguments aren't compelling enough for that.
I should have worded things better and approached things better as opposed to just ‘attacking’ claims made on that website…
No, actually, the problem is that you didn't attack any claims, but instead focused on Bill as a person. Moreover, in order to attack the "claims" made at 2012Hoax, you're going to have to attack a large body of long-standing scientific evidence and theory.
The truth to this matter is there are two sides to the argument…
Well, there really isn't an argument. There's just one side that generally accepts science and reason, and one side that generally ignores both. Which side are you on?
There’s so much info out there about 2012 it really is tough to separate fact from fiction…
It's really not that difficult, providing you are objective and willing to learn.
Both sides are convinced that their story is going to go down…
Kyle, I don't have a "story." In fact, many of us at 2012Hoax have repeatedly insisted that we, unlike many woo artists, do not claim to be soothsayers. I don't know what the future holds. But when you make positive claims about something, whether it be earthquakes or Nibiru or pole shifts, then you incur a burden of proof that obligates me, as a rational being, to seek evidence for those claims. Neither you nor any woo artist or conspiracy theorist I've ever encountered has seemed to even understand this, let alone meet that burden.
I will hand it to the astrologers and debunkers when it comes to claims like the ‘galactic alignment’ or the planets all lining up this way…
Astrologers are mystics. Astronomers are scientists.
But then one has to wonder, why so much speculation and controversy from so many supposed cultures and prophets over this date why come up with this big scare scenario?
That's just the thing, Kyle: no cultures had much of anything to say about 2012. It was the end of a baktun per the Meso-American Long-Count, and that's about it. The Hopi, Egyptians, Sumerians and whatever other groups are claimed to have had things to say about that year — it's all made up by woo artists. I challenge you to find one peer-reviewed historian or archaeologist who claims otherwise.
Why wouldn’t our government come out and ‘debunk’ it…
Most real scientists have better things to do than respond to pseudo-scientists, doomsayers and conspiracy theorists. However, people like David Morrison and NASA as an agency have come out against this nonsense. Sadly, when they do, they're accused of lying and covering up the "truth." When they say nothing, they're accused over covering up the "truth" with their silence. It's a Catch-22. No body of evidence or argument is ever good enough for people who so fervently want to believe in something.
How could it be possible that so many cultures and so many ‘prophets’ over time, ‘scholars’ and experts in whatever field all come to a 2012 “end” date IF everything is ‘business as usual’ and there’s no threat?
Name one scholar or expert in a given [relevant] field who supports such nonsense.
Why this big scam now?
Because 2012 is getting close, and doomsayers not unexpectedly are cashing in.
Why instead of that, is there controversy and even some claiming proof that governments across the world the United States in particular are building complex underground survival bunkers…
Claiming proof isn't the same thing as actually providing it. Jesse Ventura isn't proof of anything, except perhaps his own stupidity.
Why are things like extreme weather events rising with such ferocity?
I think you exaggerate, but storms are likely to increase in frequency over time if ocean warming continues. This is primarily a human-induced problem, not a fateful plunge toward some magical doomsday. If you feel inclined to cite many of the popular canards challenging anthropogenic climate change, just go to this website that has probably already addressed your claim:
http://www.skepticalscience.com
Maybe earthquakes or ‘significant quakes’ have only risen slightly over that time frame, but how could all these other extreme record breaking events be arriving at the same time with us expected to believe that this is natural and nothing out of the ordinary?
Because it really is nothing out of the ordinary. I wouldn't even grant that earthquakes have risen even "slightly." The numbers we see today are within the margins we've seen for more than a century, accounting for constant improvements in detection technology and huge increases in the number of monitoring stations.
…but how could all these other extreme record breaking events be arriving at the same time with us expected to believe that this is natural and nothing out of the ordinary?
What exactly is "ordinary," and what exactly do you think is "out of the ordinary?"
…personally I believe the only thing that can prove it to be real or a hoax is time.</blockquote>
Then why did you write this massive article? Why does your website even exist?
We can’t rule either 100% until the clock strikes 12/21/2012 or even 01/01/2013 depending on what you want to believe about the ‘doomsday’ scenario, and I think it is fair for everyone to agree with that same premises.
I don't agree at all. Most of the 2012 nonsense has already been debunked. What little hasn't been, if any, is probably still unaddressed only because sites like 2012Hoax haven't heard about it yet, or the claims are so incredibly insane or untestable that there's no way to address them.
Speaking of insane claims, you claim someone sent you this:
I see you realize that 911 was an inside job. That whole thing was one big Masonic ritual. I dont know how much research you have done about Freemasony and the Illuminati, but they are the power behind all the shenanigans going on right now. I dont know if you know it or not but they are obsessed with numerology. They do everything by certain numbers. Astrology as well. They also worship the number PI (3.14). Keeping this in mind, decide for yourself if the following is an incredible coincidence or if something is going on.
Do you really believe any of that? Why?
Do you think numerology actually means anything? Why?
Why did the user multiply? Why not add or divide or take the square root of both numbers beforehand? Why cut pi off at two decimal places? Even at that, 911*3.14 = 2860.54, not 2860. If one were to properly round to a whole number, it should be 2861.
"911" is not a date. It's just a number. The date was 9/11/2001, but only if you use the American convention. What if were written 11/9/2001? You'd get 119, but that wouldn't work too well. It certainly wouldn't work if you used the whole date, because you'd get 9112001 or 1192001.
Numerology is [b.s.], and anybody can make up a string of claims to support a crackpot idea. Don't be a sucker.
That’s a lot of info…
That message you received managed to span about 500 words while saying absolutely nothing.
But his tying 2012 to 09/11 couldn’t be ignored…
Except he did no such thing. Even you just wrote "09/11" instead of "911." You have to round wrongly to make the math work. It's a gimmick. Don't be a sucker.
I'm not going to go into your "9/11 was an inside job" routine, but I suggest reading a couple of websites.
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7___silverstein.html
http://www.debunking911.com
Even the 2012 non believers show hints that they know tough times are coming…
Posting a message from one person who thinks World War III and "global economic depression" are imminent does not support that statement. Even if those things really are imminent, which is debatable, that has absolutely nothing to do with 2012 doomsday claims. However, I suppose it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for some doomsayer to link those hypothetical events to some nonexistent 2012 prophecy, if it hasn't been done already.
…the Powers That Be are creating a giant ‘hoax’…
The "[Powers That Be]" aren't creating the 2012 hoax. People like Patrick Geryl, John Major Jenkins and Nancy Lieder, as well as large sites like ATS and small sites like yours, and uninformed idiots on Internet forums, are the source of the hoax. It's a rather convoluted causal chain, because people like you seem to be genuinely duped regarding some of this stuff, yet the fact that you've published a website to publicize your pseudo-scientific musings and misunderstandings is another cog in the [b.s.] machine, so to speak. I don't think you're anywhere close to malicious like some 2012ers, but sometimes gullibility can be almost just as bad.
…but at the same time they’re secretly building complex underground survival bunkers…
Continuing to repeat a claim does not make it true.
I hope this post is read by each and every single person in America, so that collectively we can come together and figure out EXACTLY what’s going on and what they’re planning for all of us.
You have provided no evidence that anything unusual is going on or that anyone is "planning" something "for all of us." Incidentally, my response to you on the 2012Hoax forum included a direct request for the evidence that has led to think as you do. In this long article you have posted, which I put at around 2,000 words, you've provided not one scrap of evidence for anything you've claimed. You also haven't defined anything. Even if we were having unusually numerous large earthquakes and storms, what would it mean? What would it have to do with 9/11 or 2012 doom claims?
…clearly you guys have a stellar argument and know things that some of us wouldn’t know…
We don't have "a stellar argument." We have numerous arguments based on rock-solid evidence, logic and science that completely eviscerate every 2012 claim we know about.
…and vice versa we may be picking up on things that you are currently missing right now.
Name something.
Something’s going on…
Like what? Nebulous assertion is nebulous.
…the time’s we live in are unprecedented let’s figure out why before the ‘SHTF’
I'm not sure I buy the biblical idea that there's nothing new under the Sun, but very little is new. Our time on this blue hunk of space rock has its unique properties, as every time before us has had. That's not a bad thing, in my opinion.
However, you seem to think there's something unusually, mysteriously nefarious going on in today's world. Like so many of your mind-set, you can't really seem to define what you think this "thing" is, but you're afraid of it anyway. Unfortunately, you seem to want others to be afraid of it, too, and that's my biggest problem with websites like yours. You purport to have an interest in truth and exploring "both sides," but you don't seem to be conducting much research outside of websites that already agree with your vague belief in an impending bad something.
Have a look at the Stories section at 2012Hoax, and think about some of those frightened folks the next time you post an article about some speculative fantasy nonsense that you heard about from Jesse Ventura or read on another site like this.
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