Spirits?

Spirits?

Erik (guest) 21 Feb 2011 16:54

This may sound like pseudoscience, but do you believe in spirits/ghosts, afterlife etc?
I was reading old threads and i found a thread about this matter, with a guy claiming that these things are real. They are very annoying, but they said something very interesting about spirits and stuff.
My friend is reading a book about this subject, but i don't remember its name right now. Well, the book shows evidence to prove the existence of spirits or at least give the simplest explanation for some 'unexplainable' phenomena or situations.
Some children can remember their last life. Where they lived, the name of their parents……..
Everything confirmed when doing the technique called "past life regression". Then explain how children like Mozart could play his first melody with just 3 years old and other children that can speak an ancient language with 2? There is something really weird happening.

Folks, i am just asking your opinion. Don't get me wrong.

Re: Spirits?

TheGreatJuju 21 Feb 2011 17:38

…do you believe in spirits/ghosts, afterlife etc?

No, I don't.

Well, the book shows evidence to prove the existence of spirits or at least give the simplest explanation for some 'unexplainable' phenomena or situations.

I can't think of any situation where spirits, ghosts, magic, gods, demons, dragons, centaurs, fairies or Smurfs would be the "simplest explanation" for anything, because those things first have to be given a positive ontology and attached to reality in some objective manner. Even without those two serious problems, we still have to consider whether we're needlessly multiplying entities.

Some children can remember their last life. Where they lived, the name of their parents……..

I don't think that's the simplest explanation.

http://www.skepdic.com/reincarn.html

Everything confirmed when doing the technique called "past life regression".

I think you heavily overstate the veracity of the technique itself, as one has to first assume there is something to "regress" to.

Then explain how children like Mozart could play his first melody with just 3 years old and other children that can speak an ancient language with 2?

The former doesn't need explaining, and the latter really strikes me as a hoax taken from woo sites or something with a mundane explanation blown up by popular media, like the Arabic script baby in the news a couple of years ago.

There is something really weird happening.

What? And even if so, how do magical forces explain anything?

Folks, i am just asking your opinion. Don't get me wrong.

Sure looks like you're arguing a case to me, but whatever you say. There's my opinion.

---

"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

Last edited on 21 Feb 2011 17:39 by TheGreatJuju Show more

Re: Spirits?

Tomy2011 21 Feb 2011 18:24

This may sound like pseudoscience

Perhaps…

but do you believe in spirits/ghosts, afterlife etc?

No, I don't.

I was reading old threads

Do you have anything else to do?

and i found a thread about this matter, with a guy claiming that these things are real.

Unfortunately, I remember that.

They are very annoying

Hmm, yes they are.

Well, the book shows evidence to prove the existence of spirits or at least give the simplest explanation for some 'unexplainable' phenomena or situations.

The 'simplest'? I doubt that.

Some children can remember their last life.

I doubt that (2).

Where they lived, the name of their parents……..

http://www.skepdic.com/reincarn.html (TheGreatJuju already adviced this page for you).

Everything confirmed when doing the technique called "past life regression".

Pseudoscience. The past life regression is a hypnosis technique, in which the medium (or someone else) instigate you to think about something that never happened or make up stories, places and people.

Then explain how children like Mozart could play his first melody with just 3 years old

He was a prodigy, not a weird person.

and other children that can speak an ancient language with 2?

Pseudoscience. No children can speak any language with 2 year old.

There is something really weird happening.

No, there is not.

Folks, i am just asking your opinion. Don't get me wrong.

Ok.

Re: Spirits?

UndeadxNurse 22 Feb 2011 22:28

Everything confirmed when doing the technique called "past life regression".

This is a horrible example for you to use, probably the worst example for you to use.

As someone who studies psychology, "Past Life Regression (PLR)" is probably the worst thing that you could possibly do, in order to obtain memories that have been stored in the memory bank.

The reason that it's the worst possible thing, is simple..

Not everything that a person 'remembers' is real, even the "experts" of PLR has openly admitted that while under hypnosis, a simple suggestion can create a completely fabricated memory, so it's safe to assume that at least 95% of PLR is fabricated memory, either due to unwitting suggestions by the "expert", or the desire to be part of a past life. Even in hypnosis, the subconscious is the most powerful area of the mind, it determines what we remember, even what we do, really. Even outside of hypnosis the subconscious mind controls a good portion of our functions, for example, you can type without looking, or even thinking of your keystrokes, part of it is due to memorization, but your motorfunctions depend on your subconscious mind to get your fingers to the precise destination at such a speed (providing that you type fast), the same can be true for memories, or those "random" thoughts, however, just as the subconscious mind aids us in daily life, it can also fabricate, or reproduce sensations, memories, etc.

When it comes to PLR, it's a dangerous business, to be fairly honest, simply due to the fact that if you are to put someone in this state of mind, there is a good chance that they could fabricate a memory that would ruin their lives in a sense, or even fabricate a horrid memory of their childhood, possibly of abuse, or abduction that never happened. The affects of this would impact the individual greatly through severe depression and even PTSD.

---

Wie Sie säen, so sollst du ernten.

Erik (guest) 21 Feb 2011 21:03

One of the most famous of case studies is that of Swarnlata Mishra. She was born to an intellectual and prosperous family in Pradesh in India 1948. When she was just three years old and travelling with her father past the town of Katni more than 100 miles from her home, she suddenly pointed and asked the driver to turn down a road to "my house", and suggested they could get a better cup of tea there than they could on the road.
Soon after, she related more details of her life in Katni, all of which were written down by her father. She said her name was Biya Pathak, and that she had two sons. She gave details of the house: it was white with black doors fitted with iron bars; four rooms were stuccoed, but other parts were less finished; the front floor was of stone slabs. She located the house in Zhurkutia, a district of Katni; behind the house was a girl's school, in front was a railway line, and lime furnaces were visible from the house. She added that the family had a motor car (a very rare item in India in the 1950's, and especially before Swarnlata was born). Swarnlata said Biya died of a "pain in her throat", and was treated by Dr. S. C. Bhabrat in Jabalpur. She also remembered an incident at a wedding when she and a friend had difficulty finding a latrine.

The story is much bigger, as you can see here:
http://www.ghost-story.co.uk/stories/swarnlatamishra.html

Don't get me wrong. Believe in what you want.

Tomy2011 21 Feb 2011 21:48

Hmmm… well… ok. :-) It's a good story and I will think about it later.

Last edited on 21 Feb 2011 21:49 by Tomy2011 Show more

TheGreatJuju 21 Feb 2011 22:19

The story is much bigger, as you can see here:
http://www.ghost-story.co.uk/stories/swarnlatamishra.html

Unsurprisingly, this story is relegated to sites presupposing so-called "paranormal" explanations, and there's nothing even remotely suggesting the truth of it. Ockham's Razor: one researcher planting ideas in a kid's head for his own purposes, or a family deceiving that researcher for theirs, or magical forces?

That tale is plastered virtually word-for-word across multiple mystical websites.

Don't get me wrong. Believe in what you want.

It ain't a matter of wanting to believe or disbelieve. It's a matter of what the evidence says.

You pretty much ignored my previous post, btw.

---

"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

Erik (guest) 21 Feb 2011 22:54

"Unsurprisingly, this story is relegated to sites presupposing so-called "paranormal" explanations"

Huh. Yea, it's truth. But there are more than hundreds of stories like this one.

Tomy2011 21 Feb 2011 22:56

Hoaxes, you mean. But believe in what you want to believe.

Last edited on 21 Feb 2011 22:57 by Tomy2011 Show more

3WMElliott 21 Feb 2011 23:27

To use an analogy, there are hundreds of stories of time travel in many different kinds of time machine, but seeing as they all break the known laws of physics, we can only use them as stories, not as evidence.

Just like the time machine, regression and spirits and whatnot might sound fun, but they don't stand up to testing.

snorks 22 Feb 2011 12:27

I had a past life regression once - turns out I was a koala, wombat, echidna, dragonfly, bull, salmon…. as well as a host of people. So go figure on that one. Personally I did it on a lark just to see what it was all about. Nothing there.

3WMElliott 22 Feb 2011 12:54

So you weren't to be found on a battlefield in wartime, or as some kind of ancient Egyptian royalty? Seemingly everybody has apparently lived a past life through one of those two, makes you wonder just what movies and books people have seen and kept floating around their subconcsiou-oops, might have spilled the beans as to the power of suggestion there.

Alene Y 22 Feb 2011 20:19

I like the wombat. That would be an exciting (probably short) life, fighting cobras.

TheGreatJuju 21 Feb 2011 23:42

Huh. Yea, it's truth.

It looks like a reincarnation researcher either A) strongly suggested something to a child, or B) the same researcher set aside his scientific skepticism (assuming he possessed any) and was duped by a limelight-seeking or equally-gullible family.

Ockham's Razor: one researcher planting ideas in a kid's head for his own purposes, a family deceiving that researcher for their own gain, or magical forces?

But there are more than hundreds of stories like this one.

Repeating something hundreds of times doesn't make it true.

---

"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

lakin (guest) 23 Feb 2011 21:02

Well I'm sure if you saw old threads like that you probably know where I stand. Yes I believe that stuff, but I'm also very skeptical about it. I don't jump on the wagon and say ghost right away I look for ways to debunk things. I know about infrasound, and natural things that can cause this stuff ,but I don't believe it debunks everything. This is my opinion however I have respect fro anyone who believe other wise.

Tomy2011 23 Feb 2011 21:24

Unfortunately, some people can't separate "truth" from "belief". That's why we have so many people believing in the whole 2012 end-of-the-world claims.
For godsake, they shouldn't even respect an old calendar (with all due respect to the scholars) that is not even accurate. The sad part is that spiritists are saying that the disbelievers (we) are looking for excuses to explain things that the spiritism "has the best answer".
I respect the belief in spirits. It's the least ludicrous belief I know. Without the ceremonies, holy books, churches and blablabla. :-)

lakin (guest) 26 Feb 2011 21:22

Well Yeah that is true Tommy. I mean I'm spiritist I'll admit it ,but I will admit there is a lot of woos that come from it. It's sad ,but what can you do. I hope you all realize i'm not one of the woo's. As for the churches and stuff yeah I'm with you there I see holy books as stories thats all churches just a social thing and ceremonies well depends ,but yeah your on the dot there tommy. =]

Alene Y 26 Feb 2011 21:51

I'm not against religion. I'm just against the wild-eyed Bible-thumping fanatics, the nuts who said that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment on New Orleans and the 9/11 attacks were God's punishment on New York. They're bent on taking us back to the times when people were persecuted for not beliving in someone's particular brand of religion.
An ancestor of mine was excommunicated from the church where he was the pastor back in the 1600's, because he was a "free thinker." He just came over to the colonies and started a new church. Another was actually fined repeatedly, finally losing all his property, for refusing to persecute Quakers.
The new zealots scare me.

lakin (guest) 26 Feb 2011 22:19

wow cool ancestor lol only realtivee i have thats doen something is my cousin jeff Hostetler he used to play for the giants and raider. lol and yeha I agree with you also I don't get religion

Emperor Palpatine 26 Feb 2011 22:29

the nuts who said that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment on New Orleans and the 9/11 attacks were God's punishment on New York.

Ah yes Fred Phelps. He scares even the people at my dads church.

---

Everything is proceeding as I have forseen. Wait… when did that happen?