Your 2012er Fan

Your 2012er Fan

Robert Bast (guest) 28 Feb 2011 03:49

Just popped by to say how much I like and appreciate this site. For over a decade I've been researching 2012 from a sane and scientific angle. While I believe a catastrophe in 2012 is a possibility, a much more likely result is a big fat nothing.

While suggesting that people prepare for the worst (just in case), I have spent a lot of time debunking things such as Nibiru and the "galactic alignment". This site has a done a great job of this, and I regularly point people here.

Congrats!

Re: Your 2012er Fan

TheGreatJuju 28 Feb 2011 03:51

While I believe a catastrophe in 2012 is a possibility, a much more likely result is a big fat nothing.

What kind of catastrophe, and why?

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"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

Re: Your 2012er Fan

Alene Y 28 Feb 2011 05:48

Hi Robert,
Thanks for your kind words and for sending people to our site. Like Juju, I wonder what makes you think there might be a catastrophe in 2012. Are you talking about normal disasters that can happen at any time, or do you mean something specific to 2012?

Re: Your 2012er Fan

DieselHorseLAW 28 Feb 2011 06:25

Wait wait, a 2012er that doesn't believe in 2012 doomsday?! :-| And is a friend of 2012hoax! 0.o

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“In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.” - Oscar Wilde

Re: Your 2012er Fan

CaneLaz 28 Feb 2011 14:13

Robert,

This isn't your website? http://www.survive2012.com/contact.php

Re: Your 2012er Fan

JamesJJlm 28 Feb 2011 15:01

Yeah I am very confused by this. I thought Robert Bast ran the 2012 wikipedia that is biased toward something happening in 2012, and I thought he ran the poleshift website that promotes the idea of a geographical pole shift and provides "evidence" thats not really evidence at all.

Although I see him make some posts on Johan's site that goes against 2012. Bi-polar? Or just very confused?

Re: Your 2012er Fan

DieselHorseLAW 01 Mar 2011 02:52

Maybe the more he learns the more things are pointing towards nothing happening? Maybe the information on this website has convinced him? Lol I honestly don't know but I found this particular thread nice but a bit odd at the same time.

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“In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.” - Oscar Wilde

Re: Your 2012er Fan

Tomy2011 28 Feb 2011 17:18

I'd love to know what catastrophe could happen in 2012 and why you think that. ;-)
Ok, whereas you are not a troll, you are welcome.

Re: Your 2012er Fan

Robert Bast 04 Mar 2011 03:06

OK then… here's where I stand in a nutshell:

Global cataclysms seem to have happened before, possibly crustal displacement, probably asteroid/meteors. Magnetic pole reversals have happened before, possibly more times than what we have evidence for. New research suggests they could happen quite rapidly.

Our biggest risk in 2012 is a solar storm, and the USA is especially vulnerable. We cannot predict this, let alone any ancient culture.

Pretty much the only thing an ancient culture could have predicted is the return of a long period comet. This is also something that we could be unaware of. We still won't be seeing it yet, and even worse it could be a dark comet (!).

The ancient Mayans did not specify what would happen in 2012, but they and the Aztecs believed each Sun/Age ended with the demise of all people. The implication is that they believe the same would happen in 2012, and if the Spanish hadn't burnt all but 4 of their books, we might have known what they really thought.

They probably inherited the Long Count calendar, or at least the start/end dates from a prior culture. I believe that would be the same culture that built (or just influenced) pyramids worldwide.

My hypothesis is that the secret purpose of pyramids was survival shelters. As was Noah's Ark - it wasn't a boat.

When people ask me to put a number on it, I say the odds of TEOTWAWKI in 2012 is 10%. I suggest people prepare for the worst, just in case. If nothing happens, your preparations are still useful. In the next 60 years something will most likely happen to having you wishing you had prepared - natural disasters, war, civil unrest, disease etc…

I haven't seen any evidence of increased natural disasters, except that major earthquakes seem to be more likely lately within 5 days of a solar or lunar eclipse. Tides haven't changed, so if it's not gravitational, I'm thinking it could be changes in the magnetic fields of the Sun and/or the Moon. Full moons seem to also be giving us greater odds of major earthquakes, but to a lesser extent. June 1 to July 1 could have something nasty in store for us.

But yeah, the vast majority of what I read about 2012 is crap.

BTW, while anything I share could be wrong (2012 is all about speculation), I've been doing this for more than a decade, having started the first 2012 site in 2000.

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http://survive2012.com

Re: Your 2012er Fan

TheGreatJuju 04 Mar 2011 04:27

Global cataclysms seem to have happened before

Yes.

possibly crustal displacement

Only if you subscribe to some geologic model outside the one accepted by most geologists. Continental drift and true polar wander are different processes, and they aren't sudden, cataclysmic events on Earth.

probably asteroid/meteors.

Sure, that's more or less a fact, though we've gotten pretty good at spotting/tracking them, and JPL's database is terrific.

Magnetic pole reversals have happened before

Yes.

possibly more times than what we have evidence for.

If you mean we just can't find the evidence, probably. If you mean it can happen without leaving evidence, I don't follow.

New research suggests they could happen quite rapidly.

If you're referring to Scott Brogue's ideas, they 1) are not widely accepted and 2) still require years to centuries for the transition to occur. That's "quite rapidly" on geologic time scales, sure, but hardly relevant to the claims of 2012 doomsayers.

Our biggest risk in 2012 is a solar storm, and the USA is especially vulnerable. We cannot predict this, let alone any ancient culture.

First-world infrastructure is pretty resilient. Nearly all modern satellites are hardened against solar radiation and can be temporarily powered down if necessary. We have a 24/7, 360-degree view of the Sun, giving unprecedented warning of solar activity that might trigger geomagnetic storms. In an absolute worst-case scenario, given all these considerations, there might be some power and communications outages, which are going to vary in severity relative to local providers' ability to respond.

The next Solar Maximum is projected for 2013 and is actually expected to be weaker than average.

Pretty much the only thing an ancient culture could have predicted is the return of a long period comet. This is also something that we could be unaware of.

Okay, let's hypothetically assume that is possible. So what?

We still won't be seeing it yet, and even worse it could be a dark comet (!).

Sure, but I think it's more productive to worry about having a heart attack or getting hit by a bus.

The ancient Mayans did not specify what would happen in 2012, but they and the Aztecs believed each Sun/Age ended with the demise of all people. The implication is that they believe the same would happen in 2012, and if the Spanish hadn't burnt all but 4 of their books, we might have known what they really thought.

Strangely enough, general scholarly opinion (e.g. Aveni, Van Stone) on the ancient Maya doesn't tend to agree with that contention at all, nor do the Maya who still live today.

They probably inherited the Long Count calendar, or at least the start/end dates from a prior culture. I believe that would be the same culture that built (or just influenced) pyramids worldwide.

Pyramids were constructed by multiple cultures.

My hypothesis is that the secret purpose of pyramids was survival shelters. As was Noah's Ark - it wasn't a boat.

And you base this claim on … what? What evidence do you have that "Noah's Ark" even existed? What was it?

When people ask me to put a number on it, I say the odds of TEOTWAWKI in 2012 is 10%.

And you calculated this … how?

I suggest people prepare for the worst, just in case.

What is the worst? Relative to what? Why?

If nothing happens, your preparations are still useful.

On the contrary, it's likely a lot of fear, time and effort expended on BS.

In the next 60 years something will most likely happen to having you wishing you had prepared - natural disasters, war, civil unrest, disease etc…

Disaster preparedness is only common sense, and it's going to vary from place to place, based on what you're most likely to face. Preparing for "TEOTWAWKI" is a vague, probably impossible notion advocated only by the hysterically ignorant and people trying to sell you something.

I can prepare for a tornado or earthquake, stocking emergency food and water and fuel. I can't reasonably prepare for a war or societal collapse ahead of time, at least not for the long-term, and neither can you.

Really, this is the same old "but SOMETHING might happen" argument that we've seen many times on this board. It's utterly pointless.

I haven't seen any evidence of increased natural disasters, except that major earthquakes seem to be more likely lately within 5 days of a solar or lunar eclipse.

Do you have any support for the claim that "major earthquakes seem to be more likely lately within 5 days of a solar or lunar eclipse?" Just because some major earthquakes "lately" occur over a ten day span (that's 1/3 of a month) to either side of an eclipse, that by no means indicates they are "more likely" during that time window.

Tides haven't changed, so if it's not gravitational, I'm thinking it could be changes in the magnetic fields of the Sun and/or the Moon.

Why? How?

Full moons seem to also be giving us greater odds of major earthquakes, but to a lesser extent.

"[Fractions] of a percent" says the USGS, and this is due to water pressure, not gravity per se.

June 1 to July 1 could have something nasty in store for us.

Who is "us?" Any given month, week or day of any given year could have "something nasty in store" for some population, somewhere. There's absolutely nothing remarkable about such a vague claim, especially considering that you've given yourself a 31-day window.

But yeah, the vast majority of what I read about 2012 is crap.

Yeah, me too.

BTW, while anything I share could be wrong (2012 is all about speculation), I've been doing this for more than a decade, having started the first 2012 site in 2000.

Lots of woo artists have been at it for a long time. Many have built long careers on doomsaying and fear-mongering. They're no more correct for it, and neither are you.

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"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

Re: Your 2012er Fan

bikenbeer2000 04 Mar 2011 11:49

Pretty much the only thing an ancient culture could have predicted is the return of a long period comet.

No they couldn't
The orbits of long-period comets are highly susceptible to perturbations by the planets. They invariably have their orbital period altered (often significantly, ie. more than halved or doubled) without even having to come particularly close to any planet.
Unless the ancients understood the law of gravity plus had access to the masses and distances of all the planets, they couldn't predict the return of any long-period comet that they happened to see.

Mick (guest) 04 Mar 2011 13:27

JuJu

What Bus? Now I am paranoid.

DieselHorseLAW 04 Mar 2011 13:53

The party bus.

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“In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.” - Oscar Wilde

Re: Your 2012er Fan

JamesJJlm 04 Mar 2011 15:38

Magnetic pole reversals have happened before, possibly more times than what we have evidence for. New research suggests they could happen quite rapidly.

But no research or evidence of reversals correlate with extinctions? Why do people insist on ignoring this?

Pretty much the only thing an ancient culture could have predicted is the return of a long period comet. This is also something that we could be unaware of. We still won't be seeing it yet, and even worse it could be a dark comet (!).

So you believe that the Maya saw a dark comet and was able to predict an impact thousands of years into the future? They didn't even know about all of our solar system's planets, if they knew of gravity than they obviously knew that this wouldn't be possible. No?

My hypothesis is that the secret purpose of pyramids was survival shelters. As was Noah's Ark - it wasn't a boat.

I keep seeing this but the fact remains that these pyramids (Maya & Egyptian) were built centuries apart from each other. These hyper-diffusionist ideas crumble anytime you look at the evidence. The only thing that we have as evidence for Maya correlation with oversea cultures if the fact that both the Chinese and the Maya used the same type of paper. Other than that its just speculation and fantasy invoking misconceptions about Olmec statues and the non-existent Atlantis which Plato made up.

If they were "survival shelters" than the Maya and Egyptians were not using them for one defined catastrophe, otherwise they would be built around the same time period.

When people ask me to put a number on it, I say the odds of TEOTWAWKI in 2012 is 10%. I suggest people prepare for the worst, just in case. If nothing happens, your preparations are still useful

How do you plan for "something"? There are millions and millions of people out there. If it isn't a "catastrophe" but rather just a shortage of something due to electric grid failure, good luck keeping your preperations to yourself. The world as we know it is the result of billions of years of time, and we are just at a point in time where ignorance and stupidity wants to shout what they think at the world, while intelligence would rather verify everything before saying anything at all. Science isn't about attention, its about finding answers to questions we may not even have yet. 2012ers never have questions, they just have a claim that they shout to everyone and then look for things that fit their claim while discarding everything else. You wouldn't agree?

I've been doing this for more than a decade, having started the first 2012 site in 2000.

I think you've been looking at all things 2012, examining the science, skimming modern science, and completely ignoring the Earth, human race, cultural, and extinction timeline. Then you try and implement your own ideas that have zero evidence to back it up. Pretty much just like every other 2012er does.

I am frustrated to the max.

Gary (guest) 04 Mar 2011 17:05

Hahaha, that's how I feel james, I'm so pissed off at this bulls**t I just want to grab one of these utter tools by the throat! Great answer by the way. Wish these idiots would go and hide in their bunkers and leave the rest of us alone. We get it morons, the worlds gonna end and blah blah, polar shift, blah blah, planet x, blah blah, solar flare, blah blah blah blah. If it's really gonna end and you really believe it, why are you wasting time on forums and putting up tacky websites and writing god awful books that I wouldn't use as toilet paper! Go and hide, disappear, we don't care what you think, we don't care what you think you know. You are societys rejects, born to annoy and lie your way through life. No wonder you all want the world to end, if I lived like that I'd look for that relief as well! Try and remember some people enjoy life, we don't need self declared geniuses dictating our fate to us!

Maryanne (guest) 04 Mar 2011 17:15

Good answer! This is what I have been just thinking! I want to enjoy life, and all these end-of-the-world scenarios are the last things I need. They have caused more than enough anxiety for me, and I cannot wait until January 1, 2013! Until then I will hang in there, taking one day at a time, and trying not to stress myself over these fear mongering "predictions". Life is a gift!!!

Gary (guest) 04 Mar 2011 17:29

Any anxiety I felt is now just anger, anger at the fact these people lie for money, scare kids and adults to the point they can't enjoy life anymore. Disgust at myself for ever believing any if it. Hatred for those who despite overwhelming evidence against their nonsense, keep peddling crap to the gullible to feed an ego they can't gain at any other activity. They aren't respected by anyone in real life, so they make up fantasies and declare themselves saviours, get some following on the Internet and boom, a 2012er is born. They become so deluded they challenge science and genuinely believe they know better! Oh, and they find a way to earn money as well, which is always handy. M.O.R.O.N.S!

Re: Your 2012er Fan

Tomy2011 04 Mar 2011 17:49

OK then… here's where I stand in a nutshell

Ok, you have two feet.

Global cataclysms seem to have happened before

That's right!

possibly crustal displacement

Crustal displacements are not sudden. Then, they are not cataclysmic.

probably asteroid/meteors

Yeah, asteroids struck Earth in the past. That doesn't mean asteroids and meteors will hit us soon.

Magnetic pole reversals have happened before, possibly more times than what we have evidence for. New research suggests they could happen quite rapidly.

No, they can't happen rapidly. There is no "new research" about this.

Our biggest risk in 2012 is a solar storm, and the USA is especially vulnerable. We cannot predict this, let alone any ancient culture.

Why we can't prepare our very own power system for a solar storm that we can predict?

Pretty much the only thing an ancient culture could have predicted is the return of a long period comet.

Hnn… maybe, but there is no long period comet coming toward us in 2012. And, before you even ask, Comet Elenin is not coming. We'd see if a comet is coming to destroy us.

This is also something that we could be unaware of.

Just if the object is relatively very, very small… like a door.

We still won't be seeing it yet, and even worse it could be a dark comet (!).

There is no such comet… anyway, if there is a dark comet, why the ancient Mayans or whoever predicted a comet impact for 2012, in your imagination, why we can't see with telescopes today? Nothing we can see at naked-eye can't be seen with telescopes. First rule… never forget.

The ancient Mayans did not specify what would happen in 2012, but they and the Aztecs believed each Sun/Age ended with the demise of all people. The implication is that they believe the same would happen in 2012, and if the Spanish hadn't burnt all but 4 of their books, we might have known what they really thought.

Scholars and the maya who are still here today wouldn't agree with this claim at all. And I am not surprised.

They probably inherited the Long Count calendar, or at least the start/end dates from a prior culture. I believe that would be the same culture that built (or just influenced) pyramids worldwide.

You're talking about the pseudoscientific claim called "ancient aliens", right? Well, bad news: the Maya and egyptians were whom built the pyramids.

My hypothesis is that the secret purpose of pyramids was survival shelters. As was Noah's Ark - it wasn't a boat.

Pseudoscience. Dude, be more scientific… can you?

When people ask me to put a number on it, I say the odds of TEOTWAWKI in 2012 is 10%. I suggest people prepare for the worst, just in case.

Wow! How did you calculate this number? Timewave zero and Web.bot Thin air?

If nothing happens, your preparations are still useful.

Because of…

In the next 60 years something will most likely happen to having you wishing you had prepared

60 years? No, I don't think so. We have lot of time still.

natural disasters

Unlikely.

war

Maybe, but apocalyptic? No… I do not agree.

civil unrest

Maybe…

disease

That's unlikely too. The medicine is in the top shape! ;-)

I haven't seen any evidence of increased natural disasters

Yeah, we either.

except that major earthquakes seem to be more likely lately within 5 days of a solar or lunar eclipse.

Wrong. Earthquakes are not more frequent?

Tides haven't changed, so if it's not gravitational, I'm thinking it could be changes in the magnetic fields of the Sun and/or the Moon.

Are these your own baseless claims or there is another woo website claiming more stuff ready to be debunked as well?

But yeah, the vast majority of what I read about 2012 is crap.

Finally!

BTW, while anything I share could be wrong (2012 is all about speculation), I've been doing this for more than a decade, having started the first 2012 site in 2000.

In my opinion, this is sad. But unfortunately, there is nothing we can do, but try to show you some facts. Some people just don't give up even knowing that they are wrong.
However, feel free to read the pages here… Oh, and read the "Welcome page and you'll se what you may be doing to some children that read your 2012 site.