What's it like? What do you do?

Summary:

Helping a friend deal with it all.

What's it like? What do you do?

Jamie-Jamie 02 May 2011 06:41

Hi everybody. I've been a reader for some time, having found the site late last year. As a lifelong pseudo-skeptic, 2012 struck me as a load the first time I heard about it, so finding this site was great. I loved being able to read about all the maddeningly absurd claims - My favorite ones are anything that revolve around confusing magnetism and gravity - and the cranks who push them. But I didn't quite get the full ramifications of any of it. I didn't need the site.

Until my friend David came to me one night. It was the middle of the night, on a Tuesday. He knocked on the door of my apartment and aske to come in. He told me that he hadn't slept for weeks because he'd started having nightmares about this 2012 malarky.

Now, I'm a patient woman and I wasn't about to snap at him, but I honestly felt annoyed at him. I realized that I was frustrated that someone would believe these things. He truly was terrified that a magically-propelled mini-brown-dwarf was going to come by and sideswipe the Earth… And that wasn't the bad part. "Pole swapping" is what was going to be bad.

Yeah, never mind the massive object slamming into the planet.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago. I've tried everything I know to get through to him, but he doesn't want to hear is how it seems to me. It's saddening and angering at the same time, but I can't let myself get angry at him! It isn't his fault.

But now /I'm/ the one at wits' end. Now /I/ can't sleep because I'm worried about a friend who's scared of a TV movie plot. Any thoughts from anyone out there?

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

DieselHorseLAW 02 May 2011 07:24

Honestly, the main thing that helped me when I was having bad anxiety over it all is getting back on track with my anxiety/depression meds I was already taking. Sometimes if somebody is having a lot of anxiety over it and can't be convinced otherwise or shake the worry then they need professional help. Medicine for anxiety/depression is very beneficial for keeping you emotions from taking over you logical thinking mind which is exactly what happened to me. It is easy to see through this crap when you can think logically and clearly for the most part. I'm assuming he is an adult and you can't force him to do anything, nor can you force him to listen you reason but it pays to be patient and help, because you never know how far somebody can slip into depression, and you just might save his life. Don't try and force it on him, but tell him to consider talking to a psychologist if he doesn't want meds or a psychiatrist if he would consider getting meds and it will make him feel a lot better.

---

“In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.” - Oscar Wilde

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Jamie-Jamie 02 May 2011 07:58

It's a road that I'm prepared to go down, too. I'm not scared to have an intervention where we take him to a doctor.

Our only issue is affording it. We're all blue-collar here. I work as a waitress, he works in manufacturing, and most of our friends do as well. I don't know if his insurance covers mental illness, but I intend to find out.

Do you think there's any other ways I can try before resorting to it?

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Tomy2011 02 May 2011 16:47

Do you think there's any other ways I can try before resorting to it?

Did you show this site to him? Say that we can answer any question he has about 2012, any, so he won't be afraid anymore. I think it's a good thing to do.

Last edited on 02 May 2011 16:48 by Tomy2011 Show more

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Jamie-Jamie 02 May 2011 18:47

It was the first thing I tried! I can show him proof to the contrary, show him multiple sources that are referenced. He always has the same responses…

"What if they're wrong?"
"Maybe those are only theories."
"I don't know… There's a lot to say otherwise."

I've pointed out to him all of the logical fallacies, pointed out that people who are educated in space sciences say no. People who write Sci-Fi say yes. It's just that he seems to be stuck in a world of half-knowledge. It looks like his own understanding of space science is about as good as some of the 2012 proponents. A weird mish-mash of astronomy and astrology.

He talks about travelling through constellations a lot, for example, and is convinced that the "Dark Rift" is the black hole, and not a bunch of space dust.

Not that all of this is incredibly important, just telling you the kind of backtalk I'm up against. It's the reason why /I'm/ at the pulling-hair-out stage myself.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Tomy2011 02 May 2011 18:59

It's obvious that he is taking this information from somewhere. You should find out where he's hearing about this stuff and try to show it's all crap. Don't give up if you don't want to take him to the doctor.

"What if they're wrong?"

We're quite familiar to the "what ifs". When he says that, you should answer: "what if I die from a car accident? Should I stop driving my car?"
That does not make sense.

"Maybe those are only theories."

Ask: "What theory?"

"I don't know… There's a lot to say otherwise."

A lot of BS to say otherwise he means, right?

He talks about travelling through constellations a lot, for example, and is convinced that the "Dark Rift" is the black hole, and not a bunch of space dust.

Again, he didn't make this up. He shouldn't visit doomsday sites, if you want him to stop thinking in these things. Or, unfortunately, if there's no other way, doctor.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Jamie-Jamie 02 May 2011 20:18

I've told him that there's no point in seeking these things out, but he still does. He has for weeks. I've asked him to let me see it, but he hasn't yet. I hope we can get together this afternoon and look it all over.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

JamesJJlm 02 May 2011 19:17

"What if they're wrong?" "Maybe those are only theories."

Well, he is right. They are theories. When and why did people start letting "theories" be a bad thing? In science, theory is the furthest anything gets. Everything that we know, even if we know it 100%, is a theory. Thats just how it works. Mis-attributing the word 'theory' to meaning, "well they don't know for sure so its just a theory", is just evidence of people not understanding the process. Therefore, the claims that science fiction authors make, aren't even considered theories. They are considered wrong until evidence is provided.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

TheGreatJuju 02 May 2011 19:50

Well, he is right. They are theories. When and why did people start letting "theories" be a bad thing? In science, theory is the furthest anything gets. Everything that we know, even if we know it 100%, is a theory. Thats just how it works. Mis-attributing the word 'theory' to meaning, "well they don't know for sure so its just a theory", is just evidence of people not understanding the process. Therefore, the claims that science fiction authors make, aren't even considered theories. They are considered wrong until evidence is provided.

Agreed. I see people make that mistake all the time, even on this website and sometimes from scientists themselves. If you replace "just a theory" with "just a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena," it kind of shows how misrepresentative the phrase is. I also frequently see "theory" used when what is at issue might be better described as a "hypothesis" or (in the case of so many cranks) a "claim."

---

"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

obaeyens 02 May 2011 19:50

I've pointed out to him all of the logical fallacies, pointed out that people who are educated in space sciences say no. People who write Sci-Fi say yes.

This is so true.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

obaeyens 02 May 2011 19:54

He talks about travelling through constellations a lot, for example, and is convinced that the "Dark Rift" is the black hole, and not a bunch of space dust.

Normally I would advice to give an astronomy book so he gets educated what is real astronomy.

Also this podcast is a bog resource to understand how scientists think and learn about the universe:
http://www.astronomycast.com/

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

obaeyens 02 May 2011 19:55

This one Skeptoid is also really good to learn how to think sceptical and learn to check the claims.

http://skeptoid.com/

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Jamie-Jamie 02 May 2011 20:23

I'm going to be using those today when we meet up. Thank you!!

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

obaeyens 02 May 2011 20:27

Skeptoid is very good because he analyses in depth the story covering all possible paths of a story. On a lot of cases the conclusion is just a prank that got unintentionally viral.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

obaeyens 02 May 2011 20:28

The astronomy cast is very wonderful when they actually use the words:
We don't know. But this and this and this we do know!

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Alene Y 02 May 2011 20:36

Do you know whether he actually read the pages about these claims and checked out the bibliographies at the bottom of the pages?

The "Dark Rift" has nothing to do with the black hole at the center of the galaxy.

An approximate alignment with this so called dark rift has absolutely no effect on us.

The black hole is about 26,000 light years away. We can't move at the speed of light and we aren't moving toward it anyway. If we could move at light speed and if we were moving toward it, we couldn't get there for 26,000 years. Also, alignment with an object 26,000 light years away has no effect on us.

He really needs to read the pages about these things and to stop going to crackpot sites. If he would do that, he might not need to see a doctor.

We can't really determine whether his problem is just misinformation or is the result of general anxiety. However, if reading and absorbing the facts doesn't help him, then he probably does need to see a doctor about his anxiety.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Jamie-Jamie 03 May 2011 03:42

Well, I know he did this time. Sat down with him and three other friends and we made him read it all. Together with some resources from Skeptoid, we made him admit that it wasn't true.

I don't know if he'll do what needs to be done, take our offer of walking back to sense together… Or if he's going to just forget it and go right back to fear. But his ultimatum was, learn facts or we're taking him to a doctor. No matter what.

Thanks everybody who's weighed in so far. At this point, time'll have to tell.

Re: What's it like? What do you do?

Alene Y 03 May 2011 04:53

Good for you Jamie,
You are probably doing him the biggest favor of his life. It's great that he has friends who care enough to try to help him with this. Keep us posted.