Just how wrong was Mayan astronomy?

Just how wrong was Mayan astronomy?

mHexE7D7 12 Jun 2011 01:18

Can anyone confirm that the following is an accurate description of Mayan astronomy? I can't find any other sources. I'd like to confirm this in preparation for a possible article debunking those who like to say "they knew more than modern astronomers"!

from http://www.starteachastronomy.com/mayan.html

Michael Coe gives a wonderful explanation of Mayan cosmology in his article on Mesoamerican astronomy (see references). In the center of the universe the Earth is layer one of the upper world and the underworld. It is conceptualized as a large wheel surrounded by the teoatl, or divine water, which is an ocean that extends to the horizon. The second layer, called Ilhuicatl metzli, is where the moon and clouds reside. The fixed stars lie in the next layer, known as Citlalco, where the deity Citlallicue ("She of the Starry Skirts") lives. The sun, also known as Ilhuicatl Tonatiuh, occupies the fourth layer, while Venus, the "Great Star," inhabits the fifth. Layer six is called Ilhuicatl Mamalhuazocan, or "Heaven of the Fire Drill," which represents an unidentified constellation (perhaps Orion's Belt). This layer is also where comets ("Stars that Smoke") come from, and where the fire serpents attend to their duty of bringing the sun from the east to the zenith.

So basically, the Mayan model of the universe was "layers" in the following order - 1 Earth - 2 Moon and Clouds - 3 The Stars - 4 The Sun - 5 Venus - 6 Unidentified items and comets - 7 to 12 Various gods, etc.

They placed Earth at the centre of the universe. Wrong.

They placed Earth stationary, with the rest of the universe revolving around it. Wrong

They placed the Sun further away than the stars. Wrong

They placed Venus further away than the stars. Wrong

Last edited on 12 Jun 2011 17:20 by mHexE7D7 Show more

Re: Just how wrong was Mayan astronomy?

Haustier 12 Jun 2011 23:33

Dont forget that they also believes that earth was floating around on the back of a giant turtle ;)

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- “I fear one day I'll meet God, he'll sneeze and I won't know what to say.”

Re: Just how wrong was Mayan astronomy?

TheGreatJuju 13 Jun 2011 00:07

Well, this is not to play devil's advocate, but just something to think about. Isaac Asimov wrote "The Relativity of Wrong," wherein he uses the example of how humans have viewed the earth over the years to illustrate how even wrong ideas can be useful.

People once thought the world was a flat disc. That's completely wrong, but it's not too terribly bad of a system for what they needed, since the curvature of our planet across a mile is almost zero. When they looked at their area from a high point, they pretty much saw a flat expanse in all directions, and this model survived for a long time.

Later, observations led people to conclude that the world was a sphere, which is closer to being right and certainly more useful than a flat-earth model, but it's still wrong.

Today we know that the world is an oblate spheroid.

With the Mayan model of astronomy, it was indeed pretty inaccurate relative to what we know now and even relative to a few other ancient civilizations. However, wrong as that model might have been, it allowed them to keep track of what they wanted to.

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"They tell you, but do you believe it? If so, why?"

http://www.undeadrufus.com

Last edited on 13 Jun 2011 00:08 by TheGreatJuju Show more

Re: Just how wrong was Mayan astronomy?

mHexE7D7 13 Jun 2011 01:12

I entirely agree, in fact Asimov's "relativity of wrong" is one of my favourite quotes. My real aim however is to try and establish a clear perspective of ancient and modern astronomy, for the sort of whackos who keep claiming that "the ancients knew more about the universe than we do". Which is ridiculous. They basically tracked points of light in the sky, without having any clue as to what those points of light actually are. Placing the Sun and Venus further away than the stars is a pretty bad cosmological model, but we still hear 2012ers claiming that the Mayans "knew" the stucture of the Galaxy, the Dark Rift, etc.