Some lunatic dressed up in military gear, and walked into an elementary school in CT, USA and opened fire killing 26 people. Of the 26 people, 18 are children at the age of 5yrs old. What the hell is wrong with people and how or why do people do this shit? I'm disgusted, and this seems like its becoming a trend over the last year with similar situations happening at a Mall, and Movie theater. People are more capable of doing harm to themselves than any doomsday event hoax.
It's now 27, and apparently there's one dead gunman and another still at large. This is still in the "unfolding" stage, so no telling what the actual story will be by tomorrow. It does seem like every nut in the woodwork is deciding to come out and build upon the nuttery of his recent forerunners. How utterly sad.
That's what happens when most of the people have a gun in the drawer. In my opinion, the possession of weapons by common people is something that should be reviewed by the government, not only US government. When you give weapons to a mental unstable person, the result can't be good at all.
I'm really sad for those kids and their family.
Guns are a big issues in my country, USA. I know the constitution plays a huge role in allowing citizens to arm themself, but at what cost will this continue. Did the lunatic even consider the damage he's caused on the remaining 5yr olds in that school. Do you think those kids will ever want to go back to school after dealing with that? Do you think the parents will even allow their kids to step foot back in that school? When I hear news like this it panics me, and I instantly begin to wander if my kids are safe, and I imagine getting that phone call and how my world would come crashing down. Its hard not to when you are a parent. This just sucks, plain and simple.
This is sad…But this guy obviously had some serious mental disorder(s) going on that weren't being treated. The government should not take away our guns…they should make it required to have a mental evaluation before purchasing a firearm and one should HAVE to be authorized to own one by a long process. Guns do not kill people..People who have mental disorders that go untreated kill people
That's what happens when most of the people have a gun in the drawer.
No, this is what happens in a culture that fosters this sort of behavior and leaves the most precious things in human society (children) utterly defenseless.
This wasn't just a "gun in the drawer" either, and making that comparison is just stupid, Tomy.
the possession of weapons by common people is something that should be reviewed by the government
It is.
And even here you toe the head-scratching notion of condemning firearms among the "common people" (what is this, the middle ages?) while declaring the government (nobility?) an end-all authority on who is allowed to defend themselves. Who comprises the government? Frankly, I'm more afraid of cops than random gun-toting psychopaths.
When you give weapons to a mental unstable person, the result can't be good at all.
The problem is deciding who is a "[mentally] unstable person," and the problem is a society trained to think "gun = bad" or "armed citizens = wild west shootouts in the street." Head cases with the urge to do this sort of thing know they can waltz into a school (or a movie theater) with virtually no resistance.
The GreatJuJu is correct. I'm an American Citizen and, I also think its safe to say that most citizens fear the police more than some random shooter. Not to say the police are out to kill us, but everyone hates when your driving down the road and a police car pulls out behind you. Even when you are doing nothing wrong, you get this feeling that they will try to find some reason to pull you over. Now, I fear guns because I've never held a gun, and its our legal right to own a gun in this country. While I agree with JuJu about ownership of a gun, but I don't think the ordinary citizen should have a need to own an M-16, or other types of guns like them. Semi auto or Auto. A hand gun, shot gun, or rifle is fine by me, but when we get into military grade weapons that's were I get squeamish.
I will ask you this JuJu or HLP1245, how is the government supposed to determine if someone is unstable. Mental dissorders are hard to determine. Especially if the newly to own, never has a history. Mental disorders can arise at any point in someones life. Due to a divorce, bad gambling debt, losing a child, etc. The government can't monitor all of this, its impossible, and thats why I think the right to own should be limitted to the above mentioned weapons.
how is the government supposed to determine if someone is unstable. Mental dissorders are hard to determine. Especially if the newly to own, never has a history.
That's part of the problem, and there isn't an easy answer. That's also part of the reason why I would prefer to see the stigmatization of firearms stop. Love it or hate it, the guns are out there. Legislation isn't going to magically make them disappear. Instead of trying to disarm everyone (which is draconian and futile), let people defend themselves. In just about every shooting like the one that happened today, a handful of competent armed personnel (teachers, security guards, etc.) likely would have stopped the attack well short of the final casualty count. If it were the norm, I like to think violent pricks would have to at least consider the notion of people firing back, possibly dissuading some of them from carrying out the act in the first place.
…and thats why I think the right to own should be limitted to the above mentioned weapons.
Indoors, a determined killer will likely find more success with a shotgun than with an M-16, AR-15 or any breed of "assault" weapon (possible exception to a large-capacity weapon set to fully automatic fire).
a handful of competent armed personnel (teachers, security guards, etc.) likely would have stopped the attack well short of the final casualty count
While on one hand I agree with this statement, in that if there were others armed at the school, this possibly could've been averted. But we can't assume that a Teacher with a gun, or the $8.00 an hour security guard would've been trained to deal with this type of an attack. We can't assume that the Teacher or the security guard would've thrown their lives in front of the shooting bullets to save the lives of these children. They aren't the Secret Service. With that said, and maybe this is because I live in an upscale community, I think it would be safe to assume that most parents wouldn't feel comfortable sending their kids to a school were every teacher and administrator was armed with a firearm. It might also send the wrong signal to the children and would start to feel like a military state. The unfortunate part of this story besides the loss of life, is the "stigmatization of firearms" will finally get to a point were legislation is passed to make fire arms illegal. Obama just went on TV, and sort of made a statement regarding this issue, warning americans we need to put politics aside, which I'm assuming his leftest views will try to ban arms in this country. I don't think this should happen, and I never agree with Obama, but unfortunately a few will ruin it for millions.
But we can't assume that a Teacher with a gun, or the $8.00 an hour security guard would've been trained to deal with this type of an attack.
No, we can't assume that and we don't.
We can't assume that the Teacher or the security guard would've thrown their lives in front of the shooting bullets to save the lives of these children.
When can you ever make that assumption, and why would you need to? Maybe they panic and hide. Maybe they panic, open fire and make things worse. Or maybe they don't. That's why people get training before being entrusted with that sort of thing. Even people with no training and no weapon can save lives, by just keeping a cool head and herding people away from danger (see the guy in the mall the other day).
My statement was in no way meant to imply that we just slap a pistol into the hand of Joe History Teacher and expect him to become Rambo. However, as it stands, people who work in and attend schools are effectively defenseless, as we've seen several times over in recent decades.
I think it would be safe to assume that most parents wouldn't feel comfortable sending their kids to a school were every teacher and administrator was armed with a firearm. It might also send the wrong signal to the children and would start to feel like a military state.
You don't have to have guys in full SWAT gear patrolling the halls. I wouldn't want that either. However, you have to keep in mind that government forces kids to attend school. If that's how it's going to be, they deserve to be safe.
…warning americans we need to put politics aside…
When he says that, he usually means, "Put all politics aside except for mine."
I disagree. My husband has a 12g shotgun and I have a Ruger P95 9mm. I honestly don't care who knows. Neither of us is "mentall unstable", and use our guns at the shooting range ONLY. They are left unloaded and locked up, with the ammo locked in a separate box. There is nothing wrong with people having guns, as long as they are responsible.
Neither of us is "mentall unstable", and use our guns at the shooting range ONLY.
I never said everyone who has a weapon is mentally unstable. But we all know every country has evil-minded people who should be kept away from all kind of weapons. Not everyone is responsible like you and your family.
The problem is deciding who is a "[mentally] unstable person,"
And that is the problem with allowing everyone to have a gun at home. We don't know if the person who owns the gun will only use it for self-defence only.
Of course, there is a good side. Families who own a gun have something to use for self-defence, if a thief comes in the middle of the night or even for something worse than that. But the police exists for a reason, it exists to defend the population.
But that is just my opinion, anyway. Also, the constitution is something that won't change for a long time, it's something that is innate to the americans. To outlaw it may be worse than keeping it legalized.
My opinion on that is if it is outlawed, there will be WAY more criminals buying them illegally. I think all guns should have to be registered, and, in a situation like the ovie theater shooting, there should be some way of keeping track. That guy legally bought multiple guns, mostly semi to fully automatic, in a matter of a couple of weeks. That should have been a warning sign!
And that is the problem with allowing everyone to have a gun at home. We don't know if the person who owns the gun will only use it for self-defence only.
No, the problem is a culture of fear that results in people being defenseless in public.
ut the police exists for a reason, it exists to defend the population.
Police generally don't defend anyone. They show up later and clean up the mess.
Agreed. I'm getting my concealed permit in July.
Also, we have an ADT alarm system. Our alarm was accidentally tripped and no one answered the phone when they called to check on us. HALF AN HOUR LATER the police showed up. Yeah. It kind of disturbed me.
I'm getting my concealed permit in July.
Why?
I'm not criticising or judging at all, not even asking in relation to today's news. I'm genuinely interested in what it's like where you are.
Here in the UK I have no fear of being shot, I'm not even worried about being stabbed when I go out. Do you really feel like you're just not safe without a concealed firearm?
Hear the music before the song is over…
Do you really feel like you're just not safe without a concealed firearm?
I can't speak for Samantha, but no. If you read what she wrote — "Our alarm was accidentally tripped… HALF AN HOUR LATER the police showed up," — I think she's already answered that question. It isn't about being afraid. It's about being responsible for yourself and those you care about, because nobody else is, certainly not the government or its cops.
Ohhh… I totally misinterpreted, thank you.
Hear the music before the song is over…
@Artelis: Just out of curiousity, how is life in the UK. I know guns are banned and even your ordinary police officer doesn't carry a gun. I guess what I'm trying to get at is there still gun violenc in the UK, or has this ban been able to subdue gun violence totally.
thanks
Depends where you find yourself in the UK.
In 2010, there were more wild birds killed than people here. One bird was killed. You have more fingers than we had firearms offenses that year - and that's still true if you've lost a finger or two.
There are however 121 times more people living in London alone than here, so figures inevitably vary.
The point, even with those numbers, is the feeling of general safety. I lock the doors but the only alarm is for fire. I can walk the streets at night but the streets are much quieter in general. I know the statistics for assaults per year, but know that we're tightly knit enough and that news travels quickly that we tend to do the cops job for them (evidence aside, of course).
It's just a contrast of how people live across the world. I don't need a gun to feel safe, and would question whether I wanted to live in a place where I would… but am I just saying that because of where I am, and what goes on around me? Evidently quite the talking point.
I'm not kidding when I say I could go to a house I know of about 5 minutes from where I live and buy a shotgun illegally for about £350 if I so wanted. I carried knives as a youngster, never used one, but on one occasion probably saved myself from a beating by showing I had one on me. Welcome to Glasgow. Nowadays I wouldn't go as far as to say I don't feel safe walking the streets unless I'm armed, but I certainly know where not to wander in the first place.
It's not guns here, it's knives, and it's not stabbings, it's a sharp knife down the length of your cheek. The nutters are intent on wounding and scarring for life, but even they seem aware that a knife stuck too far into the wrong place has the potential to kill.
The great thing about science is, it's true whether you believe in it or not.
3WMElliott said it all really, I honestly can't remember the last time I heard of an incidence of gun violence. There is occasionally a mention of an armed robbery, but even then I don't recall anyone actually being shot.
And police officers don't just not carry guns, they don't even wear protection against them. In the more urban areas they wear vests that protect against knives, not bullets.
Where I am, I guess I'm rather privileged compared to some parts, I'm in the countryside with only 5 other houses in the immediate area. I've been here 12 years and there has never been so much as something going missing from outside a house. Half the neighbours even go to work all day without bothering to lock their doors. Silly perhaps, but… that's how much of a contrast there is.
Hear the music before the song is over…
@3WMElliott: Thats freaking amazing. I wish it were that way here to be honest with you, but I remember growing up in the 80's and my parents never even locked the front door or their cars for that matter and we lived in the US. this is obviously a politically driven problem in our country, and the truth is even with impossible laws to get a firearm if you are mentally unstable, won't stop them from buying it on the black market. The sad truth is that the US policy on firearms could never be reversed. Even if there were new laws enacted, do you think everyone would be lining up for miles like they did when Roosevelt demanded people to hand over their gold. there would be no way for the government to manage that. All the finger pointing from both sides won't solve the issue, and thats why we need to seriously sit down as a nation, not a divided nation, and try to solve this issue. I think there was a study done, and I don't recall off hand, but it was noted that more citizens own firearms, than all of the police do througout this country. While I understand the need for those that wish to obtain and have firearms, I also understand the other side of the coin. Imagine being a police officer in the likes of Newark NJ, or Some other god forsaken bad neighborhood. Imagine being on a call that you have to deal with on the 12th floor in the projects, where you are out numbered and out gunned. Its gotta affect the way police are able to their jobs.
Imagine being on a call that you have to deal with on the 12th floor in the projects, where you are out numbered and out gunned. Its gotta affect the way police are able to their jobs.
There's no denying nor hiding from the fact that there are potential problems everywhere, and just as Gary mentions the grim side of life, some Americans on here might rightly mention, 'whoa, hey, no, we aren't all gun-toting psychopaths'.
We have had murders, and in some cases violent (edit: by that I mean multiple victims, families and so on - obviously murder is inherently 'violent'). Here it's once a decade, somewhere else in the world it's once a fortnight. Our crime columns are often little more than 'so and so appeared in court and pleaded guilty to drink driving', whereas yours may be more along the lines of 'so and so was found shot dead yesterday evening'.
It happens. Does it happen because of availability of weaponry? We humans have a knack for bashing the crap out of each other no matter what is at hand, legal or not.
It happens. Does it happen because of availability of weaponry? We humans have a knack for bashing the crap out of each other no matter what is at hand, legal or not.
Case in point, the Dunblane massacre. Dunblane is a quiet sleepy little village in the middle of nowhere, yet some sick bastard felt the need to march into a primary school and execute a bunch of 5 year olds and their teacher.
The great thing about science is, it's true whether you believe in it or not.
Thanks Gary, didn't know England had its share of psycopaths that shoot up schools. when i googled Dunblane, there were actually 3 well known in England, or only 3 in england. I forget. I guess it doesn't matter, like 3WMelliott said, humans will harm each other regardless of the weaponry. What I do find a little absurd is that we can't carry a knife in our country if its longer that the palm of your hand, but you can carry a fire arm so long as you have a permit.
One last question for those in the UK, what about hunting. Is hunting allowed since people can't obtain fire arms
Geeze, Dunblane.
16 years ago and I still have very vivid memories of the newspaper photos of those children.
Hear the music before the song is over…
Dunblane was in Scotland, the tennis player Andy Murray is a survivor of the massacre. Apparently he was hidden in the Principal's office when it happened.
Yeah I think hunting is allowed in the UK. You can get access to rifles legally but they can't be automatic or semi automatic. Also you need to have a very good reason for the police to allow you to own one. I think farmers are allowed to own a shotgun too.
Wikipedia has a good article on it. search gun politics in the united kingdom. That explains the gun control legislation here.
This is the Dunblane Gary was referring to.
One of the… I don't know what to call it, there's no "positive" to a classroom full of 5-year olds being murdered, but the Dunblane massacre is actually what prompted the ban on handguns.
Hear the music before the song is over…
I repair commercial catering equipment for a living these days (and just yesterday registered as self employed, go me) and I've worked in Dunblane primary school reparing their ovens and such. They tore the hall down where the shootings took place and built a memorial garden. I get this feeling in the pit of my stomach each time I walk into that building, it really leaves me depressed for the rest of my day. I'll stop talking about it now, not really a memory that should be spoken of too much.
The great thing about science is, it's true whether you believe in it or not.
I am furious at this, who ever did this deserves to die, and after he dies he deserves to burn in hell for all eternity. You should NEVER kill little kids! I hope they catch the bastard that did this. one of the shooters is dead already, the other shooter deserves the DEATH PENALTY!
The death penalty is evidently not a deterrent, nor is it a punishment.
Getting this off the news however, paying little attention to those who don't deserve it, now that's the start of something.
People die every day. Children die every day. They die as a result of getting shot every day. It makes the news when it doesn't happen every day where you live, in first world countries, and it makes a name out of (arguably even glorifying) those who pulled the trigger - enough of a name for the next person to try their luck, and the next person after that.
I am of course asking the news to not report the news, a nice Orwellian notion that won't come to pass any time soon, and it is far from the only factor to think about, but it is a thought none the less - how many criminals can you name compared to how many charity donors?
I am of course asking the news to not report the news, a nice Orwellian notion
Wouldn't that be a treat? It would definately be the right approach in mitigating the aftermath, and the future endeavor looking to seek the same notoriety.
Getting this off the news however, paying little attention to those who don't deserve it, now that's the start of something.
Yes, I'm quoting myself for a noticeable bump. This video from Charlie Brooker is what I refer to about dealing with these events in the news. If you don't give it the full three minutes of your time then you are simply missing the point it makes.
Ask yourself if you would ever have known about this event - and even (perhaps especially) the Chinese stabbings mentioned too - if news wasn't global, or if your friends on Facebook weren't digging them up, or if there weren't TV channels dedicated to telling you about them on the hour, every hour. Ask yourself if we should ever know about these things. We're all mighty aware of this event, but how many of us are aware of the American children who died from preventable diseases these past few weeks?
And with every mention of Charlie Brooker, I feel the need to urge those with a vague interest in the media to track down his Newswipe series. Picking apart how the news works and why it's relevant (or not) in the first place, cynically looking at it and in turn all of us. And then track down his wealth of other stuff, because he's an interesting chap.
I thought the shooting in auroura in july was horrible, but this is ten thousand times worse. heres a link to an article discussing it
http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-school-district-locked-down-shooting-report-151955384--abc-news-topstories.html
There was also another shooting in China at a school.
EDIT: It was a stabbing, not a shooting.
As a kid this breaks my heart. :( it was near Christmas and kids were excited to get there gifts and all that, wrung a evil psychopath comes onto school campus with a gun and shoots them and killed them. :'( these people are literally the devil spawn when it comes to tis. Plus, these people are making kids kill themselves for there own doomsday hoax enjoyment. These people are [flipping] sick. I hope those kids that were killed are enjoying there time in heaven :) with Jesus. R.I.P all those poor kids. :'(
What really upsets me about this topic. I mean what really made me cry is something I heard from my babysister. In her school last week about wednesday the school felt the need to take a day out of there scedjuel to teach about the winter solstice and why the world is not ending and why they were going to go home and have a nice hoiday. Now if the conn. school did the same thing, then those kids had a life long fear expelled only to have there lives riped away from them. That makes me sick, and there fears were founded all for a money making hoax. What is even more sickining is that the sheer lack of news about the hoax's founders tells you that they dont actually belieave what they say, because if they did they would make sure they were in the news they were on TV in newspapers. They would make sure they were EVERYWHERE, not just the history and discovery channels. Like Harrold Camping. You can say alot about him but as least he believed what he said.
I only hope that a hoaxer reads this poast and feels bad, because your misinformation lead schools to take days out of there curriculum to expell your lies. Its impossible to say what they could have learned in those preshious moments or if they took the time to teach about it. But if they did heres one thing they may have done, they could have been practicing a lock down drill. (excuse all my mispellings, i have disgraphia and no autocorrect. i have looked ouver all the spelling mistakes i could find.)
A lot of doomtards and trolls will be affected by their actions and hurts their very own loved ones.
These people are going to be very sorry that they even promoted the crap.
Promoting doom always creates a ticking bomb and one of your very own children might find that bomb.
The mother of the guy that did these killing prepared to survive the end of the world. Her very own actions killed her before the world ended. And in addition her very own action now hurts her whole family and probably friends that had children that went to that school.
I really hope that the police are now tracing doom promoters by looking in their browser history and face-book pages.
Some doom promoters might have the police at their door at this very moment. It won't be in the news.
The mother of the guy that did these killing prepared to survive the end of the world. Her very own actions killed her.
Where did you hear this?…I haven't heard this yet…now I know why she had those assault weapons.
The simple minded and the uninformed can be easily led astray and those that cannot connect the dots, hey look the other way. People believe what they want to believe when it makes no sense at all ~ John Mellencamp
The news here reported that she was a prepper against economic collapse or so.
Vrienden en familieleden omschrijven haar als een paranoïde vrouw die geloofde dat er op een gewelddadige manier een einde zou komen aan de geciviliseerde wereld
Translated: Friends and family described her as a paranoid woman that believed that the civilized world will come to an violently end.
I don't have time to translate all.
But there appears to be a broken hard disk and investigators want to know what information was on it.
Her house was also fortified.
She was a doomsday prepper.
How bizarre. However, I think it's a stretch to assign blame to the woman on that basis. Most "preppers" don't go on or facilitate killing sprees, and I'd be curious as to how many mass murderers in recent decades have had anything to do with "preppers," survivalists, doomsayers or what have you. I've known and affiliated with some survivalist types (they tend to show up in libertarian circles). Most of them are relatively normal folks, whatever that means, and I'm hard-pressed to identify any higher incidence of eccentricity than I've found in other sociopolitical groups.
In any case, correlation != causation.
Some doom promoters might have the police at their door at this very moment.
Why?
The mother of the guy that did these killing prepared to survive the end of the world. Her very own actions killed her before the world ended.
The firearms used were registered to the murderer's dead mother, but this is the first I've heard about her being some kind of doomsday survivalist. Source?
According to news reports on the story, the perpetrator's mother was apparently a 'prepper', stockpiling perishables and guns. Not for the 'end of the world', per se, but for an economic collapse which she thought was 'inevitable'.
Where that information was gleaned from, the article didn't quite say, but I assume it was gained from her former husband.
Yeah, I just read it on yahoo. Now all the Nutters (survivalists/preppers) are concerned they will be targeted by the big bad gubmit….http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/survivalists-worry-preppers-scapegoated-newtown-shooting-213541985.html
The simple minded and the uninformed can be easily led astray and those that cannot connect the dots, hey look the other way. People believe what they want to believe when it makes no sense at all ~ John Mellencamp
Sorry for bringing this thread back up but people are actually blaming the illuminati for this attack. This whole conspiracy theory is getting ridiculous.
Of course they are. The small minded people always blame the gubmit for a tragedy (JFK's assination, MLK's assination, Robert Kennedy's assination, 9-11, Colorado movie shooting) I saw something that someone on facebook posted last night about this tragic school shooting, and how they want to know why the story kept changing since Friday and that they basically believe that the gubmit had something to do with it. It made me sick reading it, it's garbage.
The simple minded and the uninformed can be easily led astray and those that cannot connect the dots, hey look the other way. People believe what they want to believe when it makes no sense at all ~ John Mellencamp






