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I've been reading this article today: http://www.deltaworld.org/international/Barack-Obama-We-are-ten-days-after-a-tragedy/
Barack Obama: “We are ten days after a tragedy”.
I don't know about economy that much, so I wonder what would happen if the negotiations with Republicans are not going well. If the consequences will affect everyone or not… Those things.
They need to get working on a solution for the budget. The consequences will be 1-1.5% subtraction in GDP growth… from 3% to perhaps 1.5-2%. It would mean less job growth and would hurt most of us.
How would it hurt most of us? And someone thinks that we could go back to the 1929? Or that's impossible by now?
No. We won't go back to 1929. That's just illogical fear mongering. It will hurt growth though.
collapse soon?
Baloney. Do you post to scare people? Because when I see your posts that's what I think.
After the 21 Dec fiasco, I doubt that people gets caught in the scare anymore.
The only ones that still believe the BS are the really insane ones. The ones that believe that NWO is true.
Well even if a fiscal cliff agreement isn't reached it would stunt growth to 1%. Its poor, but it is still not a recession and certainly not a collapse. The poster was engaging in fear mongering. I have seen that before from them.
collapse soon?
Goodbye, troll! You were blocked!
I have doubts that he is trolling.
I would prefer to give him a chance to express himself.
The critical moments have gone, not so many people are scared any-more.
I would prefer to give him a chance to express himself.
He kind of did.
But you are right. I could have let them speak a little bit more, since we are just in our last days here and, well, there is almost no one who is scared. :-)
Edit: I just unblocked him.
Honestly, the fiscal cliff is more like a slope. Its business as usual in Washington between the Dems and Reps. Most Americans, like 98% of us wouldn't feel a thing until we went to file taxes next year. We would see our payroll taxes go up from 4.2% to about 6.2% which is pre-Bush. Medicaid and Unemployment would be hit the hardest. Medicaid could see about a 27% reduction in what medicaid actually pays the doctors, which would in turn cause Doctors to eliminate medicaid in their practices. Unemployment won't allow any extensions, (which is a good thing, but for those that truly need it, it sucks). We would also see credits that we could write off be taken away like; earned income tax credit or research & experimentation credits, or even the mortgage credit for points paid at closing. I think the only thing government is concerned about is the sequestration of $1.2 trillion of automatic spending cuts, slated to go into effect over the course of nine years, will kick in beginning on Jan 2, 2013. This will largely effect social security, defense spending, obamacare, and the beloved WELFARE program. The most dramatic thing this has done to our country over the past month or so is its influence on how Wall Street does business. Its caused the markets to tighten and become very unsettled. Companies don't know what will happen which cause increased instability in the markets.
Its honestly going to suck, but the average American won't be affected by this for some time. I've seen statements about GDP above and those estimates are true, but let me also mention that most of our GDP is thanks to government spending and hiring, and the numbers are way lower than whats in the news. Much, Much lower, and unemployment is much, much higher. This cliff gives Dems a perfect opportunity to let taxes increase on all Americans. It doesn't make any sense to raise taxes when our country is still getting out from under the recession. Our economy is much worse now, than it was when Obama extended the Bush tax cuts 2 yrs ago, so I don't see any reason to raise them. Our government is spending too much, and increased taxes would slighten the margin if taxes were raised on all of us. It sucks, I know, but its looking more and more like the out come. I mean seriously, How can our freaking President have an issue with spending cuts, after he tacked on 6trillion in national debt in 4yrs. We need to extend Bush tax cuts, and come up with a fiscal budget that cuts the hell out of our governments spending.
The President didn't tack on major spending increases. That isn't up to him. It was up to the Congress who added a lot of pork to bills. His health care program would actually save money in the long term, but the republicans refused to listen. It's ironic the republicans are so against "Obamacare" yet their Presidential candidate had implemented a form of it as Governor in Massachusetts.
The Bush tax cuts are ridiculous and are costing this country trillions that it shouldn't. Yes, government is spending too much, but a majority of government spending goes to the huge military and the failed wars we were fighting. Not health care nor education.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3849
http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms/10-10-12bud-f1.jpg
http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms/10-10-12bud-f2.jpg - THIS IS NOT A LIE. This was done by a non-partisan organization. Obama has VERY LITTLE to do with why the debt is at its present level. Obama didn't tack on 6 trillion. A majority of that was prior spending and tax cuts. Without the Bush era tax cuts and the wars we would be at around 42-43% of debt as part of the GDP and that would decline below 40% in several years. Instead because of the republicans and their failed past policies, the debt level has reached 80% of the GDP.
It's not Obama who is at fault. It's republicans who sent this country over the cliff. We need to let tax cuts expire on the rich, and extend those on the middle class and small businesses.
My guess is this: Republicans will be FORCED to allow tax cuts expire on the rich, while conceding in allowing the cuts to continue for the middle class and those who make under $250,000. My prediction is by doing this the debt level will decrease to about 60% of the GDP… it's not great, but it's better than 80 or 90%.
Romney's form of healthcare wasn't his strong suit if you can remember, and obviously he lost the election.
My guess is this: Republicans will be FORCED to allow tax cuts expire on the rich, while conceding in allowing the cuts to continue for the middle class and those who make under $250,000
What exactly do you mean by this, "conceding". Republicans don't want taxes going up on any class, rich or poor. They are fighting for the entire nation, while dems are holding wealthy people hostage to use in their negotiations. Dems are creating class warfare, while spending more than any government in the history of governments has spent… Its undeniable!!! I"m not a fan of Obama and his failed policies, nor was I a fan of Romney. I would have you know that I'm an Independant sitting on the sidelines looking into the hour glass, and I'm very concerned over the way Obama and his scaremongering cabinet do business in Washington. It would be much easier to extend the Bush tax cuts and reduce spending. I love how people claim Obama Care will save money in the long the run, but forget about all the different insurance companies it will put out of business since they won't be able to compete with gov insurance. Lets also not forget the 700billion in cuts that are being made to medicaid to help pay for Obama Care. Which in turn will move doctors away from the form of insurance. I love it when any President promises shit that takes 8 to 10yrs to maticulate. It must be nice trying to prove something will "really" work a decade from now, but we have no way of knowing until 10yrs from now. I love how they say shit like that, and expect us to trust them it will pan out.
I don't know if you have kids, but I have 4 and this scares the hell out of me. My post above wasn't in favor of either party, but I'm obviously distrusting of the most failed presidency in US history as far as I'm concerned. Obama uses the same tactics to do business by scaring the pulbic, dividing the public, and forcing deals down congress throats at the last minute.. Quite a procrastinator!!!! I voted for Obama the first time around, but he and his cabinet don't know the first thing about saving this country. His famous quote first time around was Mainstreet not Wallstreet, yet he appointed all Wall Street guys to work in the Fed, Treasury, economy dept in the US.
The gov needs to stop spending, and should focus on getting people back to work. GDP as you stated, and if you look at the numbers is mostly from the government. Thats in no way a promise of better things to come. Thats why gov needs to continue to spend under Obama to ensure GDP outcomes.
If you remember TARP, which was another great jam down the throats of congress or else the US economy would freeze up, and done at the last minute as well. TARP was intended to rescue banks underwater from the mortgage defaults and homeowners. It was passed, because we were told the US economy would collapse. But how was the money used. The money was lent out from the FED Reserve, to other huge banks. The banks in turn got to write off their bad debts under TARP, and actually used the money to buy other banks. Never in the History of our country have we seen so many bank take overs in such a short period of time. We had healthy banks being bought up cheap because of a manipulated market value. The Wells Fargo's, and Bank of America's of the world become too big to fail under the new TARP money's thanks to our government and Federal Reserve. Instead of having 30 big banks, we are down to about 5 in our country, and they are indeed to big to fail. The banking industry is able to hold the US government hostage any time they have a crisis, and now the government will always have to help them if they are on the verge of failing. Look at the CEO's of those big banks, and their connections to the FED Reserver, and US Treasury, and maybe you will see the bigger picture.
At the end of the day whats on the news is truly irrelevant, and the promises being made should be judged based on that person's history. Business was done the wrong way for the past 6 or 7 yrs, and even under the latter part of Bush with his ridiculous spending in Washington. Agreeable those were scary times in the post 9-11, and our government had to surge into the tech error which is where most of the cost came from.
Obama Care might or might not work, but one thing is for sure more companies will be going out of business because they won't be able to comptete. There is so much policy entwined in the Obama Care that I don't have the time nor patience to go through it all, but it was held back after Obama got re-elected. He has been injecting class war fare in our nation more than any other leader in modern history. Separating the rich and the poor is nonsense, and its honestly only for the ignorance of our society to believe in that. Thats a campaign tactic and nothing more.
i can tell you right off the bat. Absolutely not. The republicans are not working for everyone in this country and they are actually aligning themselves with the rich and continue to do so. The republicans want to cut taxes on the wealthy, not increase them or let them be. And they want to increase taxes on the middle and working class. Reduce spending? But where? Ad Obama hasn't scaremongered anyone. I leave that to the republican party. They did that to the entire country the entire election and manufactured lies.
I'd rather you read my source instead of making these claims. Obama isn't using tactics to scare the public, the republican party is. And the republican party needs to stop playing these stupid political games. We know they are aligned with the rich and only care about the top 5%.
You may find it shocking how Obama has had very little to do wtih the debt, and the government needs tos top spending? That's really interesting because the government is the one who maintains infrastructure in this country that is quite important. At the end of the day, it's all interesting republicans are still complaining about TARP when TARP itself has paid itself back and then some. In addition it is such a small portion of this country's debt.
Look at the source again please. We can reduce the debt burden if we let the Bush tax cuts expire (on the wealthy that is). Extending tax cuts on the middle and working classes.
The republicans are out of order here and are the ones responsible for this mess in the first place.
'
"Dems are creating class warfare, while spending more than any government in the history of governments has spent… Its undeniable!"]
Typical fox new talking point and one without any evidence.
How are they creating class warfare? You have no proof. I guess you don't care about the medium and long term. YOu are only about the shortterm. It explains your misinterpretations and falsehoods. And what are his failures? Republicans and so called "independents" keep on talking about that and fail at it. Obama has the backing of the country. His latest approval ratings are around 55-60% approving.
How long has it been 80% to 90% of GDP, and did you actually take a look at the GDP numbers to see where the nominal growth came from over the past 8 or 9 months. Our government. Raising taxes on the Rich, and I don't know about you but there have been years were I made over 250k, and I paid almost 60% in taxes and health care out of each check. I was by no means rich. I still skated by each month thanks to having 4 kids, cars, and a mortgage. The wealthy will only bring in a modest amount of taxes will only be less than 5% of the national debt, less than a trillion a year. How is that going to help us? Honestly, that will never lower the debt to 60% of GDP as you stated. Lets also look at the flip side to the scenario. If the average business owner, who files taxes personally, has to pay additional taxes out of his income, what do you think that will do to his staff. Most business run with slight margins of profit, especially new business. This will do 2 things. 1. people will lie on their taxes to show less income, and it will create more dishonestly in our tax systems. 2. Business owners will have to lay off workers due to the fact they will be making less money. So now we have someone collecting unemployment, which is more spending out of the federal government. People often think that the "Rich" are the Donald Trumps of the world, but in actuality his kind are very rare in our country, like 1% of our population. Most of the Rich, under the terms of Obama, which is anything over 250k, are your ordinary above average people in our country that own businesses.
This will greatly affect our country in more than one way. Its not going to generate the money they estimate unless every business operates as usual and doesn't lay any one off. Another way business owners can compensate for increased taxes is to raise the cost of their merchandise to offset tax increases. But this could cause a significant drop in sales if they aren't competative with other local companies, smaller companies that won't see a tax hike.
There are so many problems with this proposal, and I'm not arguing it isn't a good thing to raise taxes. If the economy was surging like it did under the tech error under Clinton, then sure why not, we should all pay our share fair. But when the economy has no growth, or slight growth it will only hurt us.
Much of the wealthy are only paying 15-20% of their income in taxes. Please take a look at my source please. The rich aren't paying their fair share and republicans are working only for the rich. The republicans dno't give a crap about the middle class or working class.
Yes they are, Federal taxes. What you and most of the public seem to overlook is how they get those taxes down to that level. Among write offs and exemptions, the largest contributors world wide and in our nation are charitable contributions. It amazes me how everyone put Romney down for paying 15% in federal taxes, but overlooked the 30% of his income that he donated to charities. People complained that he took advantage of the tax code to pay less taxes, and yes this is true but how did he do it. By contributing over 4million in charitable donations. How can anyone prescribe to the idea that the government should've ended up with that money vs the organizations that received the money as a gift to help people world wide. Wealthy people have an abundant of resources to write down their taxes so they can pay less, whether its from setting up trust funds for their kids and family, or investments, or donations. People shouldn't judge unless they've walked in their shoes. Its unfair for the average joe to assume what is right and what is wrong with someone elses income.
So while much of the wealthy pays 15% to 20% in federal taxes, where do the average stand. Much, much lower around 10% or even 8% depending on how many dependants you have in your family.
He donated to 30% to charities? Are you kidding me? Most of his income was sent abroad to overseas accounts in both the Cayman Islands and Bahamas. He also took fishy money from El Salvadorean Oligarchs in the 1980s… many of which were tied to right wing paramilitary squads. His money was dirty from the get go. Your ideas are just all out of order.
Your simply regergetating what you hear in the news, and the sources you listed aren't of any use. I'm not arguing with you, and you need to do your homework. I'm guessing you recently graduated college and you've stated you have a background in anthropology. I'm in the banking Industry, and I get to see a much different perspective than most. The wealthy, pay more than half of the tax revenue in this country, so I don't see how they aren't paying their fair share considering the wealthy make up less than 5% of our nation. It must be easy for you to presume what someone else should do or not do with their income, but I'm betting you probably fall in the middle class somewhere, and you believe the horseshit being spewed in the media left. There were reasons why the Bush admin proposed and got the tax cuts passed. Why? compare the US economy of that time to its current stance and ask yourself, why it should change now? Simply saying they don't pay their fair share is scare mongering garbage used during a political campaign. It has no relevance now, and its only going to hurt our nation. Why did Obama run on this the first time around, dividing the classes that is, but shortly after becoming president he decided it wasn't good for the economy to eliminate the bush tax cuts on the wealthy. Obama's words, not mine. Our economy was in a more precarious situation then, than it is now. Siting articles written by the media leftest, isn't citing facts. This President lacks the common understanding of the US economy, and has left his decision making up to the fat cats ex-wall street big wigs and the federal reserve which isn't even controlled by the US government, or is it. Obama could simply not allow taxes to go up any American, but instead he's playing politics as usual, and what you don't understand is if our economy was booming it would make perfect sense to raise taxes on the wealthy but it isn't. The GDP you talk of has a meager growth which only exist thanks to government spending and hiring, and Obama wants to make the government even bigger. So he needs more tax dollars to increase the size of government to implement Obama Care, and other new agencies on the books for the upcoming calendar year. Know your facts, and understand that this fiasco going on right now isn't for the betterment of our citizens, its for power and control in government.
My sources listd aren't of any use? YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK. All you do is recite what you been spoonfed on Fox News. I am giving you a source from an independent non-partisan organization that has nothing to do with Washington Politics. So how can you even dismiss my source so outright? You aren't living in the real world, my friend. I have graduated with a Masters in Political Science. I've also done work on the ground with the community. I also have worked with helping Latino friendly BUSINESSES (as I work for local government). The middle class is being screwed by the republican party and even you can't see this.
And I'm not believing horseshit. Half of your post was baseless groundless right wing bullshit. I'm sorry. The media? I don't even watch American media. I avoid it. I watch the BBC and Al Jazeera English (for perspective). Al Jazeera english uses British reporters and they tend to talk about American politics from the outside.
You are extremely dismissive and confrontational when confronted with actual sources, and not the same Fox News claptrap you have so much bought into.
You have insulted me enough and I will not sit here and take it. The Obama administration started many financial policies, including ones regarding mortgages and banking, that prevented wider scale fall out. The situation couldh ave been a whole lot worse. And that article I cited wasn't writtenbup by the media leftist. You have gone down a similiar route as Patrick Geryl… but in politics.
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm.. My point is I don't have news articles to cite because I live in this economy. I don't care for news, and I thought I made that point several times by stating I'm an Independant and I actually voted for Obama. I didn't know Al Jazeera was the best source for News in the US, but that only tells me where you stand. Left or Right is irrelevant, is what I've been saying. I'm neither left nor right, I'm down the middle. I know from first hand experience and whats been happening to the companies I'm employed by. I didn't mean to insult you, but its common knowledge in my industry when people cite this stuff about the GOP or Republicans that they don't understand what is truly at work here. Both parties could go screw for all I care, the only thing I'm worried about is the future of my family. Plain and simple. Both parties are wrong for how they've been conducting business for the last 10yrs or so. Obama had plenty of opportunities to increase the taxes on the wealthy, but failed to do so for the prosperity of our nation. So why now, because he doesn't have to run again for presidency. I'm sorry Gcarini, and I do love reading your post on here, but its become more evident that you honestly think Republicans are horrible people by your statement below. A party, nor a religion defines a person. It may show were their values lay, but both parties should be ashamed of themselves. What's been happening in Obama's campaign and now is proof of chicago politics at its best. The corruption and lies need to stop, and I'm sorry it goes all the way to the top with this guy. I didn't mean to offend you and If I did i'm sorry. I wasn't trying to. I live in this economy, i deal with the regs, and my family has to pay the price. I too went to college as pre-med, and then switched to business finance.
And nothing substantial there asides from showing a 3.1% increase in the GDP. There seems to be some pick-up in the economy. If the fiscal cliff can be avoided that will be substained. But it's ill advised to simply dismiss the Policy group I brought up. They are non-partisan and are made up of technocrats.
Did you see where the increases in GDP are coming from, and thats my point. I'm sorry if I offended you, and BBC is very pro Obama in case you didn't know. England and including every country in Europe gave Obama higher approval ratings than the US did. England overwhelming supports Obama
http://www.ccsce.com/PDF/Numbers-Sept-2012-Job-Growth-Bush-Obama.pdf… I don't know where you are getting 5 million new jobs from. He's only gained the jobs that were lost under his administration. They aren't new jobs, lets also not forget the people that have fallen off the unemployment radar, or have stopped looking for a job, and thats were we see an increase in about 15 million in welfare, government assisted programs, and foodstamps. If 5 million were lost under his admin, and they were gained back, were did the uptick in 15 million on welfare come from. So the truth behind growth and job growth are heavily skewed, and the numbers that come out each month have a +/- of 400k. Most people don't know that. Thats why a few weeks before the election we saw the first unemployment drop below 8%, but it went up .1% the following week, and most of those jobs created were within the federal government. They have 400k to use in their averages for their benefit, and for the benefit of Wall Street. Numbers aren't the whole truth, is all I'm saying. but with respect to GDP, most of the nations growth has come from government spending and hiring.
edit: and if you would like a business media bias to analyze our nations true unemployment figures, which they estimate to be around 14.7% then here you go http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/10/11/obamas-real-unemployment-rate-is-14-7-and-a-recessions-on-the-way/… http://www.examiner.com/article/7-7-unemployment-inaccurately-depicts-real-jobless-rate
You're too biased and not paying attention. Most job growth wasr elatd to the private sector, not the public sector. The public sector has actually shedded jobs the last year. Pay attention please. It's not welfare or government assisted programs. I'm talking about jobs in the private sector and in manufacturing. It wasn't on welfare. And it's funny how people attack welfare in this country. Welfare is used by those who are working too… unemployment by the way went down to 7.7%. Your posts reeks of political bias and are not well in tune with reality. Sorry.
Most GDP and economic growth isn't coming from government spending and hiring when the government isn't hiring and cutting jobs. Get real.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-private-sector-and-the-public-sector-under-obama-2012-6?op=1
This is a conservative suorce by the way and it tells you the truth. Corporate profits are through the roof under Obama. Thought he was bad for business? Oh wait…. he's not.
Your own ideas are heavily skewed and almost nonsencial.
And you want to know why government jobs shot up under 2010? Uhmmmm… THE CENSUS. The government has cut jobs and continues to shed jobs throughout the past two years. Open your eyes please.
And BBC supports Obama? So what? Better than thinking that the republican party is helping everybody.
And one other thing… better to support Obama than being delusional about the reality.
Most of the nation's GDP growth is from the private sector. Not from the declining government employment which has constantly declined. How do I know? I work in government. People are getting laid off, not hired. They are trying to keep those with high skills as there is a tendency for high skilled candidates in government to move to the private sector where there is significantly more opportunities that pay better.
Republicans in general are serial liars and the sooner you recognize this reality the better off you'll be. Obama is far better than those morons in the republican party who filibuster themselves and left this country a disaster. And I think Obama has done a decent enough job. By the way, I am NOT a democrat. I'm a non-partisan. But I haven't bought so much into the right wing lies like you have.
Forbes and Examiner are just right wing claptrap to be honest and they are inclined to skew anything they can about Obama. These morons don't realize that corporations are having record profits under the Obama administration. I know quite a bit about business too… so don't be so dismissive. It's super easy to claim that the figures are inaccurate… it's another thing actually supporting those phony statements.
hey are trying to keep those with high skills as there is a tendency for high skilled candidates in government to move to the private sector where there is significantly more opportunities that pay better.
You said it not me. Thats whole Idea of capitalism, isn't it. I am paying attention but you keep saying the same thing over and over again. The truth of the matter is Obama and his administration were only able to gain back the jobs they lost over his presidency. But there has been an increase in government assisted programs. You saying you work in government doesn't give you the inside edge. there are many dpts in our government and subsidiaries that are contracted out, like defense and solar or wind. You say my ideas about taxes are laughable, but you don't explain why. I understand you majored in Politcal science, but what exactly is that, its the study of government or governments, the political processes, and political behavior. It in no way makes you an expert on economics. People that ascribe to the Obama philosphy for some reason have hatred and animosity towards the right, for what reasons I have no Idea. Republicans have done much good in our nation, and there wouldn't even be civil rights without their dedication and commitment to making the bill pass. People forget that, and talk about how the right is against middle america or minorities, when its the other way around. Should we honestly penalize the wealthy who have made their fair share, and for being educated, responsible, and motivated to succeed because our government can't control their spending. Thats ridiculous. The government is asking them to pay for their mistakes. What did the wealthy ever do to deserve that. They didn't incur our nations debt, they didn't make decisions in Washington to affect our kids future. The only thing they ever did wrong was be rich. I hate that division, it was only created in the Obama campaign, and I can't ever remember another president in recent years running a campaign based on the premise. Lets fuck the rich because they are rich, so the government can pay back its debts. You don't see whats wrong with that, then I'm sorry. Its not fair to use that in a campaign. Again, I would have no issue with taxes going up if our country was in a better situation, like it was during the tech error under Clinton. The problem isn't whether or not the Right will let the Dems raise taxes, its over spending, and spending alone right now. The right wants the left to cut spending and they will give into the taxes, but until the left knows how to be responsible with the countries tax revenues, why should the right give in. If the president can sit back, and watch this whole fiasco go down, what does that say about him and the left. They are using the middle class hostage, not the other way around. I feel like its a witch hunt against the wealthy, and thats what pisses me off. We are a nation, and we shouldn't divide over petty stuff like this. We all know they pay their fair share, and pay more than 50% of tax revenues to our country. What would be more fair, and honestly when have you ever seen a tax return for someone who makes serious money. I'm betting you've never seen a tax return for the wealthy. So unless you can verify your information without using media bias slang, than thats all it is. Its not a known fact they pay that much, because I see tax returns all day long. I hate when people use that analogy, without ever observing a tax rerturn.
Sorry. Having seen the warning I will edit this reply and not respond. Sorry for any misunderstandings. Lets agree to disagree and let it be.
Sometimes it is wise not to respond when you start to realize that your actions will get turn this site into a political site and actually could split the people.
This site needs people to work together even when they have opposing views.
The trick is to realize that once you get negative emotional, stop posting.
Unless the emotion is actually going to help the person. An emotional post that you are concerned that someone will hurt himself is a good post. It transmits '"we do care about you" message.
And your idea on taxes are laughable at best. Most of the GDP growth has been solid and significant enough to lower unemployment. In addition, since the peak of the recession in 2010 (which was years in the making) 5 million private sector jobs have been created. Obama hasn't wanted to make government big and bigger. That's just more nonsense fairytale rubbish spoonfed to you by Fox News.
This organization is not media based and isn't based around politicians. In the end, policy makers actually take material from them.
Stop believing the Fox News bullshit and lets get back to reality. The GOP is a nutcase party full of whackjobs who have no understanding of the middle or lower classes. They aren't trying to help everybody in this country. Oh and the economy back under the Bush administration was built on a house of cards. There were cracks in the system appearing all the way back to 2007. But I guess some here just don't want to see it. And what I have cited is better than you citing absolutely nothing.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-wins-8-10-wealthiest-154837437.html
Oh and if you think Obama is pushing class warfare you're even more wrong than I thought.
The weathly often pay less than 20% of their income in taxes. Time to roll that back and make them pay their fair share (which they clearly aren't). Any more claptrap I need to deal with?
Corruption and lies… then ask the ASSHOLES in the republican party to come clean!
Politics, never a good topic. It always ends in tears and flame war.
I agree, and I actually voted for Obama's change and hope to only be hurt irreverseably in the new Obama economy. So I admit, I'm fueled by the destruction and over abundancy of government legislature and regulations in my industry. My industry has been hit the hardest and its becoming ever more apparent that the smaller companies are getting flushed out. While smaller companies have to jump through hoops and never ending regulations, the larger companies get to avoid these regs. Dodd Frank is a big reason for this, and most of the public, like 80% of it probably doesn't even understand what this act entails. What gets me going is when people cite what they hear in the news as fact, without fully understanding the issues at hand. I started off by explaining the changes that would happen if we went of the fiscal cliff, and I agree I went a little off topic, but the topic is dear and near to my heart and families wallet. We've suffered a great deal, and that shows in my words, so I apoligize if I offended any Obama supporters.
It's too bad you don't even know what you're talking about. Fueled by destruction? What destruction? The economy was going in a tail spin for years. It didn't start under Obama. He was left to pick up the pieces. It's not my fault you refuse to listen to logic. And my community suffered a great deal more because of the recession… and we still stood behind Obama. Why? Because we know republicans are full of shit and are lying. They only want to work for a few and not the many. Mitt Romney said it himself in his dismissive rhetoric of half of the country who work long and hard. So please spare the rhetoric. Nobody was going to go in there and snap their fingers to make everything better. And certainly not those incompetent idiots in the GOP who filibuster themselves.
I temporary blocked SmartyPantz in another heated political until he cools down.
jasonb75, gcarini1985
Don't make me do that to you too.
Oh, wow… It's taken me hours to read all this. Well… I just wanted to know some things about the US economy, since I'm from Spain and we're really bad here and barely know about the American policy. We now have to pay for medecines that were free before, even we have to pay to go to the doctor and the ambulances, this never happened before so we're really really bad. We also have to pay even MORE to travel and it was really expensive before. They are taking away our rights and there's no money to study because they have taken away from us. And there's a lot of things I could say, but the best word to resume all this is: We're f***ed. We don't have a very good salary so you all can imagine how Spanish people are living here right now.
Even some of the people that are in the Goverment now were with Franco before, when there was a dictatorship.
So, that's why I asked about the US economy, because if they don't get working on a solution… Well, I don't know what will happen!
We now have to pay for medecines that were free before, even we have to pay to go to the doctor and the ambulances, this never happened before so we're really really bad.
Those things were never free. That you thought they were is probably a big part of them problem.
I know they aren't free, but there are some medecines, like Ibuprofen, that we didn't have to pay; the doctor hands you the recipe and then you go to the pharmacy and they give you the medecine. Of course there are medecines that were never free. Now you have to pay for everything and the medecines for the old people (some were "free" with the recipe) are also expensive now and they don't gain so much money from their retirement pension.
This is in Spain, I don't know around the world how's going.
I agree with TheGreatJuju. You never had anything free to begin with. That is one of the great lies told by politicians to get your vote. I hate to give you bad news, but with the re-election of obama america is firmly on the path of countries like spain and greece. My wife is a healthcare professional and works with medicare and medicad daily. We have already thrown our mentally disabled to the side to come up with more money to waste on pork spending by the congress and president. Next is the elderly. No matter what you hear from the most ardent of democrats, republicans, or obama supporters, american has taken a huge leap towards that hole that you see greece now finding itself in. Our debt will only continue to increase as obama has to keep giving money to those people who voted for him. the congress does the same thing. Yeah, I agree, it really is a hard pill to swallow. But Americans have become a country of entightlement seeking individuals. There are too many programs that promise money to people if you vote for the right person. All you have to do is look at the facts and the reality. No matter what any politician tells you, this last election sealed it.
My wife an I worked in a state school for the mentally disabled around 20 years ago. It was eventually shutdown due to federal funding being cut. Over time that funding has been cut more and been funnled to "pork" spending for corrupt politicians. Unions have taken their cuts, special interest groups as well. Those who are really in need, the common man, are the ones who are suffering. While the politicians ride the wave of fear and hate, the common man has been pulling the weight of 10. It pains me to say it, but america is a shell of what she once was. Yes, there are good people in the united states. I used to believe politicians listened to the people. When Bill Clinton listened to the people and changed his policies I gained more faith that those leading us did care. Yet now I see a leader how cares nothing about what the average person believes or thinks. The difference is 180 degrees.
So do not count on the U.S. economy to improve. A simple understanding of economics will show you that we are not going to anytime soon. The path we chose is one that will only decrease our value to the world marketplace.
I can tell you there is a lot of misinformation right now on what is happening in the usa. The current administration is hurting the average american more than some here will admit. And no, I am not a republican. I algin myslef with no party. I am simply and independent. The reality is that under obama we have declined and the forecast is that we will continue to get worse. That is fact. Our debt is going to increase. That is fact. Spin it however you wish, but these are the facts. Obama lied to a lot of people. However, he also told the truth and has a lot of debts he has to pay off. You can count on higher taxes for the average american, not the wealthy. You people who are being fooled by his banter need to open your eyes. Obama is no different than any other elite. He just chooses to deceive a different portion of the populace. Enjoy, "thinking," your candidate is telling you the truth. He has lied for, at the miniumum, 4 years. Now you can enjoy another 4 years of increased prices, and decreased wages and jobs. You want to see the future of America? Look no further than Greece.
@Johnny Football: Spoken like a true American, and I couldn't disagree with you one bit. This line hits the nail between the eyes:
I can tell you there is a lot of misinformation right now on what is happening in the usa.
That is exactly right, this administration has never once had any intentions of not letting the Bush Tax Cuts continue. Using the wealthy as hostage, and making it seem like the Republicans are going to be the blame for this is Politics 101. They've known all along taxes need to go up on the entire country in order to compensate for the enormous amount of money this administration is spending. Missinformation, is the key to this administration and Johnny Football hit it dead on. My parents are older and they have already seen cuts in their medicaid, before Obama care even goes into affect. I could care less, like Johnny said, if our president was a liberal, gay, jewish, muslim, dem, rep, or independant. I have no allegence to a party, and my only basis for voting is judging an individual based on his prior accomplishments. Right, I mean thats what it all boils down to.
Here's a list of this Presidents blatant lies to the American Citizens, our elected officials, and even to the Supreme court of our country. Its chicago politcs at best, and again I don't mean to offend anyone. But I had the same concerns over Bush and his cabinet during the Iraqi war, and the stupendous amount of spending his administration was responsible for. Here's the site, and I don't know if they have an affiliation with either side of the isle, but they used Obama's Own Words and quoted him. http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/fashion-shows/..
People forget he promised Hope and Change, Unemployment down to 5% in 2yrs, cut the national debt not add to it, to step across the isle in true compromise, No special interests: Will not be beholding to special interests. (Wall Street fundraisers just a day or so after their bailout. he was given millions from fund raisers, Closing Gitmo: He is commander and chief and has no excuse, Not letting politics influence scientific matters: Over ruled FDA on morning after pill, Benghazi, Syria, Israel, TARP, ending the Iraq war 16 months after elected to presidency and lets also not forget that he took credit for the Bush's time table that was proposed before Bush left office, Afghanastan: http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/obama-lies-about-ending-the-war-in-afghanistan/...The list goes on, and if this were any President my thoughts would be exactly the same as they are now. The truth is our economy isn't going to get better, and Obama knew the situation he was getting into before he took office. He desired to get right to work because of the difficulties that were facing our Banking industry in this country. He knew fully well, and he made this economy his from day 1 in office, and he's so bodly stated. The truth is our national debt is at 17 trillion, and I don't think the average person even understands what that means, nor do they care unless it affects them financially. Our countries unemployment is still hovering around 8%, a drop below nationally, but in some states its still over 10%. 17 trillion, I mean, come on. Wars were budgeted for, TARP was somewhat paid back, so where the hell did the almost 7 trillion come from. Its simple math, and numbers don't lie. Who says the rich don't pay their fair share, and again the numbers don't lie: http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html… This shows the that the top 50% have been paying 97 to 96% of the income tax over the last decade while the bottom 50% have contributed to 3 to 4% over that same time. Whats funny, is the bottom 50% have actually paid less taxes as a group each consecutive year leading up to 2009, while the highest tax payers have actually increased over that same time frame.
The Heritage Foundation concluded that the Bush tax cuts led to the rich shouldering more of the income tax burden and the poor shouldering less; while the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) has concluded that the tax cuts have conferred the "largest benefits, by far on the highest income households." However that same publication indicates that more than 75% of tax savings (and cost to the treasury) went to households in the bottom 99% of income. The underlying policy has been criticized by Democratic Party congressional opponents for giving tax cuts to the rich with capital gains tax breaks while acknowledging some benefit extended to middle and lower income brackets as well.
The heritage foundation is a mouthpiece for everything wrong in this country. It is right wing and politically biased.
I thought we were done discussing politics? I seem to think not. There is a great deal of disinformation here.
Ok, I will bite, can you kindly show me the missinformation that you are talking about. I would greatly appreciate that. Thanks, I wasn't coming back to this topic, but after reading a post above I decided to comment on some of his points, and add to it with articles that you asked me to provide earlier. I also included a non partisan link to show tax dollars paid by income bracket, and % of the contributions they make to our countries tax revenue… I will provide it again to illustrate my point… http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html.. No one can claim they aren't paying their fair share.
Just one warning, don't make this a political threat again, that ends in a flame war.
I agree with obaeyens. This is not a political site. I have my own political views and it's difficult to avoid jumping in here. Please just shut it off before we have to.
I'm holding back. As I come from a very political background that has been marked by activism, it's incredibly difficult for me to hold back. I feel as there are serious falsehoods in this thread and I'll leave it at that.
I'll propose something different, lets agree to disagree and move back to future doomsday scams. :)
